bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Enlighten us then, lletsa.
BNP membership list has been put online.
- Thread starter audiotech
- Start date
I'm neither a Trot nor an anarcho and I still think that's bollocks, and it's profoundly depressing to see how many stupid liberals there are here drawing some sort of a moral equivalence between Redwatch and this.
When those who appear on Redwatch are members of a violent, racist, anti-democratic organisation then there might be some merit in the argument, but they aren't and there isn't. What's been leaked is, as bluestreak points out, not just a list of armchair sympathisers but members and activists. Cunts, the lot of them.
Maybe there's something in the argument a few people have put forward that this list could have been better used to damage the BNP if it hadn't been leaked. I don't know, and the fact is that the leak has happened.
One of the news websites last night talked about a 'climate of fear' among BNP members. Good - I've no sympathy. A whole lot of people fear them and their rise to prominence, and with good reason. Some of them think they're going to lose their jobs. Again, why should I care? Fuck the lot of them.
Yes-all of that clearly proves that I'm wrong and that you do indeed have something of relevance to say to counter the influence of the BNP among its working class audience, and that I said there was a moral equivalence between Redwatch (it's all about watching Reds, you know) and the leaked list.
What's your advice to potential and existing BNP supporters? That they're 'cunts, the lot of them?'
Oh dear.
1. It's blindingly obvious that I wasn't referring specifically to you when I made my remarks about Redwatch so your first paragraph is completely misplaced.
2. I'm not offering advice to anyone.
I just observed that anyone who can square joiining a party like the BNP with their conscience is a cunt. 3. Oh I can't be bothered. If you're too thick to read what's there, there;s no point carrying on.
Leaking private info like this is wrong. Hoever the parties concerned cause me to respond accordingly: stuff 'em.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Is this some kind of zen teaching o master?
grrr
grrr
grrr
I can feel it doing me some good already.
How shall we hug nazis, o master?
teuchter
je suis teuchter
"Probably" isn't enough for me.
If you go to the BNP website you'll find various sections declaring that they are not racist, and giving various reasons why.
I happen to believe that one can support many or most of the BNP's policies without being racist. Selfish, shortsighted or ignorant perhaps, but you do not need to be racist to be of the opinion that your community/country would be better without people from other places being mixed into it.
You and I might suspect that many people's views are based on racism and ideas of racial superiority and the like, and we might be right but it's not fair to tar everyone with the same brush. Likewise you or I might not buy everything the BNP says about themselves in their website or in other publicity, but you can't assume that anyone signing up for membership looks beyond it in that way or has a proper understanding of where seemingly innocuous ideas could end up leading to in more extreme circumstances.
Yes, a little, but just to make the point.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
In what way, specifically, do you consider the BNP anti-democratic?
Apparently this list actually contains a lot of non-members.
It is scarey to think that some people might be tempted to target an address where someone else might now be living, might see an identical name and get the wrong person (see how many names you can find on facebook for example), might target someone who is unlucky enough to have been listed by their parents against their will - even people who managed to be put on the list incorrectly.
It also contains ex-members. Maybe think they deserve to be punished for years to come by this?
Does this mean the membership lists of the Green Party, the SWP (which might contain names from years ago), trades unions, various NGOs, or even left-leaning websites/forums are now 'fair game' for anyone who disagrees with them politically?
It is kind of scarey to think what it would be like if people routinely Googled names and found out all the political and voluntary links people (supposedly) have, their home addresses etc. This would be abused no end by all sorts of nasty people and every time someone had a grudge against anyone and just wanted to dig up anything they could use to get at them.
Yes maybe it is funny when it happens to people you don't like, but how then do we complain when next year it happens to us, if we were complicit now?
It is scarey to think that some people might be tempted to target an address where someone else might now be living, might see an identical name and get the wrong person (see how many names you can find on facebook for example), might target someone who is unlucky enough to have been listed by their parents against their will - even people who managed to be put on the list incorrectly.
It also contains ex-members. Maybe think they deserve to be punished for years to come by this?
Does this mean the membership lists of the Green Party, the SWP (which might contain names from years ago), trades unions, various NGOs, or even left-leaning websites/forums are now 'fair game' for anyone who disagrees with them politically?
It is kind of scarey to think what it would be like if people routinely Googled names and found out all the political and voluntary links people (supposedly) have, their home addresses etc. This would be abused no end by all sorts of nasty people and every time someone had a grudge against anyone and just wanted to dig up anything they could use to get at them.
Yes maybe it is funny when it happens to people you don't like, but how then do we complain when next year it happens to us, if we were complicit now?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
oh well, that's alright then
yes, you do need to be racist to believe that, it's pretty much the definition of racism
there may, just possibly be a dozen people n that membership list who aren't racist, but they are just idiots in some other way.
None of which is to call for everyone on the list to be physically assaulted, btw, which is what you seem to be claiming those of us who disagree with you right-wing liberalism believe
teuchter
je suis teuchter
No. It is not an opinion about one race being superior or inferior to another. It is an opinion about the effects of mixing people belonging to different races and/or cultures together and the benefits or disbenefits of doing so.
Silver_Fox
New Member
Are there still any maps out there showing where all the BNP members live?
I know there was one but it's been replaced by a "heat" map.
I know there was one but it's been replaced by a "heat" map.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Nah, if there was complete and unfettered access to this kind of information on everybody it would loose currency instantly - complete availability of information would place everyone on an equal footing because everyone could see what everyone else was/is doing. It's difficult to hold something over someone when one's own behaviour is subject to the same level of scrutiny - I mean, do you think that tabloid journalists would so happily and freely reveal details of people's sexual peccadilos or drug use if they themselves were subject to the same revelations?
claphamboy
The wheels on the bus go round and round....
According to Nick Griffin on a BBC TV interview it contains just seven more ‘members’ then the original copy.
claphamboy
The wheels on the bus go round and round....
Of course you do.
“An awkward man. Not for re-employment.” …we should all become that awkward man.
The bleating of the far right about the privacy of their membership list
being printed, holds no fucking sympathy round here, the publishing of the
list will of course give the far right some publicity and all anti
racist/anti fascists should counter this and now more than ever, instead
of Indymedia and others giving them a platform, a right to reply, we
should understand that it goes against what we stand for to deny the right
to free speech. Sometimes the right to free speech should be not given,
along with the use of physical of course is one means by we defeat the far
right.
It was not a cynical attempt of publicity, when the list was published
(here is a link to that list) we shall be reading and looking for known
names such as Ruth Davis of Leeds, and others. Just like they have done on
one of their many far right web pages, we shall be publishing their names
and contact info, we would not be encouraging anyone to break the law
unlike the far right have done, and lets not forget it was their members
who killed S Lawrence, neither should we forget each time they’re elected
- racism in any given area increases.
It is only when we smash capitalism, that the places of urban
explorations, shall become the ruins of dead cities that will lead to the
working class being free, not being a member of the far right, neither
does work bring liberty, we should never forget the words on the gates of
Auschwitz: “Albeit Macht Frei” (Work Makes Free)
underclassrising.net who are a mixed bunch, between us we represent most of the various ‘flavours’ of anarchism; class war, anarcho-syndicalists, eco-anarchists, marxist- autonomists, stirnerites, tolstoyans, mutual-aiders, punks, etc. we meet for drinks, parties, walks, discussion (OK, fights) and activism on a (sometimes) regular basis.We don’t think that a website is ever going to change the world and we’d encourage anyone living in south yorkshire to get off their arse and get physically involved in anarchist politics.send us an email wordwarfreeatrisedotnet for more,otherwise we will see you on the streets.
we understand that only the smashing of capitalism, will mean the working class are free, neither should we forget those who died in all wars, and understand the Pirates who took an oil tanker are heroes (more here). Each time a member of our class kills themselves, or even as it says on one of the cards we got from our last exploration…
“An awkward man. Not for re-employment.” …we should all become that awkward man.
The bleating of the far right about the privacy of their membership list
being printed, holds no fucking sympathy round here, the publishing of the
list will of course give the far right some publicity and all anti
racist/anti fascists should counter this and now more than ever, instead
of Indymedia and others giving them a platform, a right to reply, we
should understand that it goes against what we stand for to deny the right
to free speech. Sometimes the right to free speech should be not given,
along with the use of physical of course is one means by we defeat the far
right.
It was not a cynical attempt of publicity, when the list was published
(here is a link to that list) we shall be reading and looking for known
names such as Ruth Davis of Leeds, and others. Just like they have done on
one of their many far right web pages, we shall be publishing their names
and contact info, we would not be encouraging anyone to break the law
unlike the far right have done, and lets not forget it was their members
who killed S Lawrence, neither should we forget each time they’re elected
- racism in any given area increases.
It is only when we smash capitalism, that the places of urban
explorations, shall become the ruins of dead cities that will lead to the
working class being free, not being a member of the far right, neither
does work bring liberty, we should never forget the words on the gates of
Auschwitz: “Albeit Macht Frei” (Work Makes Free)
underclassrising.net who are a mixed bunch, between us we represent most of the various ‘flavours’ of anarchism; class war, anarcho-syndicalists, eco-anarchists, marxist- autonomists, stirnerites, tolstoyans, mutual-aiders, punks, etc. we meet for drinks, parties, walks, discussion (OK, fights) and activism on a (sometimes) regular basis.We don’t think that a website is ever going to change the world and we’d encourage anyone living in south yorkshire to get off their arse and get physically involved in anarchist politics.send us an email wordwarfreeatrisedotnet for more,otherwise we will see you on the streets.
we understand that only the smashing of capitalism, will mean the working class are free, neither should we forget those who died in all wars, and understand the Pirates who took an oil tanker are heroes (more here). Each time a member of our class kills themselves, or even as it says on one of the cards we got from our last exploration…
“An awkward man. Not for re-employment.” …we should all become that awkward man.
I'd argue that they are racist in that they define people as "native British" (versus 'non-native British') ... they are a bit vague about this, but it seems that anyone who has immigrated to the UK, but also people born here but who have non-British ancestry or 'ethnicity' is deemed not to be 'native British'.
Otherwise how would they arrive at the following claim:
They seem to be implying:
1. immigrant = non-native
2. non-white = non-native
3. anyone with any non-british 'ethnicity' = non-native
(although they don't set out clearly how these rules function exactly - for example someone born outside the UK to 'white british parents' who then returns to the UK is an 'immigrant' - how would they then qualify as 'native'? It is possible to think up lots of examples, and in then end it seems to come down to 'race'...)
They don't use the term 'white British' but given the first quote, this seems to be implied.
Therefore I'd say that they are racist.
Silver_Fox
New Member
Anyone know where the google maps are?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
It's pretty feckin' A that overnight we've scored such an amazing list of members - but I'm not gonna be ranting and raving about people losing their jobs.
Seems ironic that in an attempt to stamp out the fash who are supposedly in a dangerous position to merge with the establishment and clamp down on the reds, it's lefties siding with employers and the state to enforce this bogus restriction on employment. Strange bedfellows - they'll come back to haunt us.
Seems ironic that in an attempt to stamp out the fash who are supposedly in a dangerous position to merge with the establishment and clamp down on the reds, it's lefties siding with employers and the state to enforce this bogus restriction on employment. Strange bedfellows - they'll come back to haunt us.
Paulie Tandoori
shut it you egg!
Given the fact that i mentioned redwatch in a very specific context in my reply to teuchter vis a vis McCarthyism, I'm wondering whether you mean me in this remark? If so, maybe i suggest that you go back and read what I wrote before making such utterly idiotic statements.
A liberal ffs
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
so, the belief that 'races;' shouldn't mix isn't racist? that 'whites' (does that include the irish btw, how about poles?) and 'blacks' can't get along together, that isn't racist? total and utter rubbish.
in case you are too dumb too notice, 'cultural 'racism has been the preferred form of racism of the far-right in this country for over thirty years. but presumably, according to you, the BNP and NF aren't racist at all
Given the fact that i mentioned redwatch in a very specific context in my reply to teuchter vis a vis McCarthyism, I'm wondering whether you mean me in this remark? If so, maybe i suggest that you go back and read what I wrote before making such utterly idiotic statements.
A liberal ffs
No, I was not referring to you. Wind your neck in.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
teuchter seems to be mistaking misanthropy for racism here...
chegrimandi
associated with adultery
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
wikileaks seems to be down atm...
Silver_Fox
New Member
That links good but it's not the google map.
The map you can zone in around the country and see where people live.
Can't find it now, are there any still out there?
The map you can zone in around the country and see where people live.
Can't find it now, are there any still out there?
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