Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
your phd will take a month cos they have to digitise it first.
BNP leader faces jail!!
- Thread starter MrA
- Start date
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
Good one!
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
Doesn't look it butch, they're dying to dredge up old thread's.
audiotech
wav, aiff, mp3, ogg, flac
You're the Doc with the .doc I thought I asked for.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Larry - you prove yourself to be an oaf repeatedly. You start by calling me a 'liar', not by trying to understand what I meant. You could have started something like;
'what does this mean?'
(A) 'Where have I written 'all powerful BNP'? (and that is if you honestly thought i thought it was a quote which I doubt)
Instead you go gung ho in a precious manner and THEN cheekily complain that 'I abused you' . Here's a little dialectical lesson for you, what goes around comes around, you started swinging like an oaf so I swung back. Simples. (Meercat.com) A bit of self criticism pls Dr Precious....
B) I wasn't reduced into doing anything Dr Precious. I clarified a simple original chatty bulletin board post, I really can't be bothered to play ball for you now either so you'll be waiting some time, and you've blown it up into some sort of test. As if I give a fek what you write. I do not. All you have is one take on anti fascism, well done, now get over it.
C) VP has called RMP3 for using prejeudiced mental health slurs, and you are using prejeudicial language too Dr Precious. Tsk tsk. Reactionary rubbish now isn't it.
You do not get the 'human' part either....
The Black Hand
Unclean
1 of the many. Another would be the IWW, another the WEA (& there's more), all un take overable - I am not involved in them to takeover, but to promote and encourage class struggle.
But then, you & others should know all this. As Dr Marx said, if it is not struggle it is worthless, a 'mere academic exercise'.
BTW Larry, the last bit IS a quote, from the 'Theses on Fueruebach' (spelling could be wrong though).
It's not even similar.
Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
1) The above quote, from post 713 on this very thread, is what I took exception to, because it falsely states I believe in an "all powerful BNP policy and practice line".
2) I repeatedly asked TBH to show me where/when I have stated or implied this. He has not done so, variously claiming that he "usually" provides quotes, and ultimately suggesting I find the quotes myself.
3) His latest twist, in post 785 above, is to now claim I dont really believe he ever said this. I do: above is the proof.
It does though, explain why TBH can't find any quotes from me, if he has such amnesia about his own contribution to this very thread.
Zhelezniakov
Well-Known Member
I am Black Hand, founder of COMPARETHEMARXISM.COM.
Where we compare Marxisms, Praxis, Autonomy, Ultra Left, you know.
But recently we get many people looking for car insurance, people looking
for COMPARETHEMARKET.COM. I cannot find you cheap car insurance.
For compare MARXISMS, go Compare the MARXISMS.COM
For easy way to save on car insurance go to COMPARETHE ******.COM
Simples.
Where we compare Marxisms, Praxis, Autonomy, Ultra Left, you know.
But recently we get many people looking for car insurance, people looking
for COMPARETHEMARKET.COM. I cannot find you cheap car insurance.
For compare MARXISMS, go Compare the MARXISMS.COM
For easy way to save on car insurance go to COMPARETHE ******.COM
Simples.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Larry, you have learned nothing then. For heavens sake, I said "'What I am deeply unhappy with is the formulation encouraged By Larry O'Hara/ Butchers that takes what the BNP says as worth repeating without critique. I do not agree with that 'all powerful' BNP policy and practice line because it does not accord with reality".
I do not see it as problematic at all, as it has been said, it is a characteristation of the appearance of your work, it DOES NOT AND NEVER DID SAY YOU SAID IT. It is MINE, not yours, and that is clear. That is YOUR wishful thinking/projection and fabrication to say that i thought there was a direct quote like that at all. You are completely unwilling to comprehend that it was a paraphrase, a recognised technique. You sir, are becoming as much of a fraud as those you wish to critique.
That you are whinging like a whingy thing is pathetic, funny even. That you cannot comprehend others may think that of your work (whether it is there or not), and I think it is funny too that you are sooo in denial
AS I said, I have soooo many better things to do than ABC spell out for you why I think it is a reasonable characteristation of your work. I could, but I refuse at the present timeThe Black Hand
Unclean
Well spotted, it was not 100% correct, I got my 'scholastic' and 'academic' mixed up without checking.
Here is the quote in question "The dispute over the reality or non-reality of thinking that is isolated from practice is a purely scholastic question." I got the MEANING RIGHT THOUGH
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/theses/theses.htm
Fekking nitpickers
The Black Hand
Unclean
I am Black Hand, founder of COMPARETHEMARXISM.COM.
Where we compare Marxisms, Praxis, Autonomy, Ultra Left, you know.
But recently we get many people looking for car insurance, people looking
for COMPARETHEMARKET.COM. I cannot find you cheap car insurance.
For compare MARXISMS, go Compare the MARXISMS.COM
For easy way to save on car insurance go to COMPARETHE ******.COM
Simples.
Is it funny, I hope you got some kicks. It bored the arse off me though
The Black Hand
Unclean
Do keep up Larry, I made the same point in this post ages ago;
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=10218412&postcount=715
You keep repeating yourself.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Who's talking about Urban 75 being the limit of your engagement? Of course it's not. Urban 75 is only another piece in the jigsaw of your moves hither, thither and yon in your attempt to find converts.
You make me sound really dynamic and brilliant. Thankyou
One little point, I am not after converts, I am after class struggle and people who are interested in building class struggle rather than moan about it ad infinitum ad nauseum etc on the web
More time should be spent on building practical class struggle rather than posting indefinately all day everyday on the web.
That is not to say the web hasn't got a role....
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
So, converts then.You make me sound really dynamic and brilliant. Thankyou
One little point, I am not after converts, I am after class struggle and people who are interested in building class struggle rather than moan about it ad infinitum ad nauseum etc on the web
Which is why I only post for about 3 hours a day, unless it's a heavy morphine day, in which case I post for about twice that.
Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
Larry, you have learned nothing then. For heavens sake, I said "'What I am deeply unhappy with is the formulation encouraged By Larry O'Hara/ Butchers that takes what the BNP says as worth repeating without critique. I do not agree with that 'all powerful' BNP policy and practice line because it does not accord with reality".
I do not see it as problematic at all, as it has been said, it is a characteristation of the appearance of your work, it DOES NOT AND NEVER DID SAY YOU SAID IT. It is MINE, not yours, and that is clear. ...You are completely unwilling to comprehend that it was a paraphrase, a recognised technique. You sir, are becoming as much of a fraud as those you wish to critique.
I have soooo many better things to do than ABC spell out for you why I think it is a reasonable characteristation of your work. I could, but I refuse at the present time
1) You put out a misrepresentation of my research, implying I state the BNP are 'all powerful', or my research can be characterised as saying such.
2) I have repeatedly asked you for proof--evidence--that this characterisation is valid, at least 5 times now.
3) You have repeatedly shown you cannot provide such proof--it is not an accepted academic technique to misrepresent, call it a paraphrase, and then "refuse to spell out" why this misrepresentation is in fact accurate.
Using your technique, I can equally assert you are a 'neo-Nazi', 'racist', 'holocaust denier'. Using your techniques I can then say
a) this is an accurate characterisation
b) say that I "usually" supply quotes for my claims
c) hurl abuse at you--Saint, whiny, Dr Precious, pathetic etc.
d) grandly announce I am sooooooooooo busy I "can't be bothered" to provide the proof.
Simpoules. At least it is for a deluded liar like yourself.
Well spotted, it was not 100% correct, I got my 'scholastic' and 'academic' mixed up without checking.
Here is the quote in question "The dispute over the reality or non-reality of thinking that is isolated from practice is a purely scholastic question." I got the MEANING RIGHT THOUGH
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1845/theses/theses.htm
Fekking nitpickers
That's not anything close to what you said. He isn't saying that thinking divorced from practice is merely a scholastic pursuit.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Many have eyes but do not see - here is Karl Marx;
"thinking that is isolated from practice is a purely scholastic question"
100% saying, with no room for manouvre, that thinking divorced from practice is a scholastic question.
He is also saying:
"practice is a purely scholastic question"
I'm sure we can get Marx to say anything if we quote fragments of sentences.
The Black Hand
Unclean
1) Of course your research can be characterised like that. At least you are conceeding this is what I originally meant. Well done.
2) Give over Larry, I am not playing ball for you. I have said repeatedly that I will not. Remember you hurled abuse first by calling me a liar, if you improve your pr, and don't jump in and call me a liar straight away next thread/time I just maybe bothered to do as you ask.
But not now, no. So stop whinging about it Saint Larry and get on with writing something useful (i nearly added 'for a change then').
3) As I said Larry, if you read my points. It was a chatty bulletin board comment, as if I was talking down the pub. It is not an academic submission for publication, and that is why it is unfinished. You are so very precious, 'demanding this and demanding that'... Get over yourself, you and your research are not important.
The Black Hand
Unclean
BUT you are making a crass abstraction, that is not consistent with Marx's work.
If you want to read about the nature of abstractions I suggest you try "Making Histories: Studies in History writing and politics" (Centre for Contemporary Cultural Studies) by editors Johnson, McLennan, Schwarz and Sutton, published by the University of Minnesota Press, 1982. In particular the article "Reading for the best Marx: history writing and historical abstraction" by Richard Johnson.
That shows the way I have used Marx is consistent with what Karl Marx meant and the Marxist method.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Taking the full quote, the subject of the sentence is the dispute, not the thinking. It's bad enough to edit off the end of a sentence, but the beginning?
You haven't tried to understand my point.
Edit: Thanks ymu for explaining it. My patience isn't what it used to be.
Is this a product of sheer idiocy - ie. does THB not understand Marx's sentence structure. Or is it a product of sheer cinicism - ie. does THB believe he can warp Marx for his own purposes and he thinks he can get away with it because he assumes that everyone else is too stupid to understand Marx's sentence structure?
I'm inclined to think the latter.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's rotten by TBH and a prime example of why i rarely respond to him.
The Black Hand
Unclean
Don't be daft, here is the 2nd theses on Feuerbach in entirity, I think my interpretation is the correct one;
"The question whether objective truth can be attributed to human thinking is not a question of theory but is a practical question. Man must prove the truth — i.e. the reality and power, the this-sidedness of his thinking in practice. The dispute over the reality or non-reality of thinking that is isolated from practice is a purely scholastic question."
The Black Hand
Unclean
The Black Hand
Unclean
Taking the full quote, the subject of the sentence is the dispute, not the thinking. It's bad enough to edit off the end of a sentence, but the beginning?
"The question whether objective truth can be attributed to human thinking is not a question of theory but is a practical question. Man must prove the truth — i.e. the reality and power, the this-sidedness of his thinking in practice. The dispute over the reality or non-reality of thinking that is isolated from practice is a purely scholastic question."
It is thinking which is the subject, thinking is a 'practical question', only 'proveable in practice'. As Marx said. I do not see how you could conclude any differently tbh, only if you want to elevate thinking which is not grounded in practice, which only those who lack an authentic working class perspective would try
AS Marx said...The Black Hand said:
It's obvious you don't understand Marx here. Marx is saying that truth is not a property of thought. He's effectively saying that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. He is not saying that truth is unimportant, that theory and facts are mere academic (or scholastic) exercises. You can't use Marx when complaining that factual statements about the BNP are worthless if they are not "critical" ie. they don't go through a ritual of stating opposition to the BNP.
This thread is interesting because of three poster's attitude to political discourse.
RMP3 and MrA need rituals of diplomacy before disagreements can be aired.
They are joined by Black Hand in the need for rituals of opposition to the BNP.
We should understand the religious nature of sectarianism. All these rituals.
Having said that I doubt THB has a sectarian agenda. Unless you count BH as a sect with one member. MrA is probably Catholic (as a guess).
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