BNP leader faces jail!!

[LLETSA]

I find it very odd the establishment political parties are so scared of the BNP they are going to such lengths to stop Griffin standing at the general election.
They would do much better to address the issues effecting the poor white working class all three main parties seem to have abandoned.

They're not scared of Griffin. They rely on the purpose he serves.

 

[audiotech]

It doesn't mean that the BNP runs Redwatch,...

They never have.

 

[LLETSA]

They never have.

Quite.

 

[williammartin]

They're not scared of Griffin. They rely on the purpose he serves.

Sorry but we will have to agree to disagree, when Griffin and Brons were elected as MEPs the three main parties soiled their underwear.

 

[Y_I_Otter]

You think the BNP run redwatch? Where are these attacks on non-bnp nationalists?

I happened to be browsing the site yesterday, as it happens. They'd been down for a while and I was interested in seeing what new character assassinations they'd been up to during their hiatus. Just lately they're posting pics and real name of some Spermfront poster who identifies as NF (the preferred flavour of nationalism over there), but has the temerity to be fond of some footballer of colour. There's been a shitload of that kind of stuff in the past, but never against any true-blue BNPers, only people who have either been turfed from the party for one reason or another, or who have been public about why they left of their own accord.

I also follow the UK board at VNN which is solid BNP territory and they're mostly very Redwatch-friendly BNP types. (If you buck the party line over there, you're one of three things: a Searchlight Spy, a UAF mole or a Jew.) Unless I'm mistaken, some people 'closely associated' with RW post there as well.

I read the Brit nationalist/neo-nazi blogs when time permits as well. I love this kind of stuff, from the POV of an anti-racist who doesn't watch much TV. It's my second-favourite British soap, after Corrie.

 

[Pickman's model]

What a pointless article. Transparently designed to cause trouble for the BNP 'from above' - knowing full well that the content of the headline is pure bullshit. Leppard is a hyena who'll post up any shit anyone official sounding sends him anyway - Michael Foot was a KGB spy - remember who broke that scoop?

& the hitler diaries if memory serves

 

[LLETSA]

Sorry but we will have to agree to disagree, when Griffin and Brons were elected as MEPs the three main parties soiled their underwear.

Don't you think that it might be in the script?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Hop aboard, one & all! The martyrdom express is leaving the station!

That's exactly how Griffin and Co. will play it. They'll rail against the liberal courts who're "unnecessarily" oppressing them, and milk the publicity for all it's worth.

 

[audiotech]

& the hitler diaries if memory serves

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0074s6q/Days_that_Shook_the_World_Series_3_The_Hitler_Diaries/

 

[williammartin]

Don't you think that it might be in the script?

I seriously think they are genuinely scared. They have all left areas of white working class deprived areas to rot. Nationally council house waiting list times are from 4 years to 14 years (Shelter web site.)
The surprise should be that the BMP only gets under a million votes considering just how hacked of people are.

 

[LLETSA]

I seriously think they are genuinely scared. They have all left areas of white working class deprived areas to rot.

And the BNP, with their, on the whole laughable, unrealisable programme and tendency to foster low-level and manageable (so far) race conflict, are much preferable to a genuine, viable opposition.

 

[Citizen66]

It's fairly obvious that some individuals in the BNP would approve of Redwatch and seek to collaborate with it, despite, as has been mentioned, the hostility of those running it, past and present, to most of what the BNP is currently trying to do. It doesn't mean that the BNP runs Redwatch, which is a paper tiger anyway. A hobby for mental cases.

Well yeah. The BNP don't have to be involved with actually running redwatch to encourage people to use it to give 'reds' grief. It is a 'service' that encourages people to send in photographs and information on 'reds'.

Antifa claim it is run by Mr K. Watmough who is/was a founding member of the British People's Party; some fringe far right loopy outfit not connected with the BNP.

Redwatch' is a so-called fascist ‘hate-site’, where members of the far-right post pictures of the enemies they will ‘one day make pay’. While the site is undoubtedly designed to intimidate, as with many myths by and about fascists, and often circulated by the pseudo antifascist entity Searchlight, the reality about 'Redwatch', is very different to the fascist wanking fantasy they would like us to believe.

Experienced antifascists have long realised that fascist fantasies about ‘Aryan hard-men’, also long propagated by Searchlight, were far from the truth. The reality is that most fascists are snivelling little cowards.

So it is with 'Redwatch', the reality is very far from the myth Searchlight have helped to create. The site is filled with photos taken from Indymedia and suchlike, showing trade unionists, anti-war protestors, students, and liberal anti-racists. Along with the photos are a sprinkling of contact details gleaned from public sources. Much of this information is out of date, and frankly drivel.

Included in the glaring lack of information posted on 'Redwatch', mixed in with pictures of people who happened to go on a demo at some point in their lives, are pics of a few militant antifascists. But so what?

Do we really care that Kevin Watmough, the main architect of Redwatch, knows what a few of our comrades may look like? Do we f**k!

Don't know if the above is based on fact or shit stirring on behalf of Antifa.

http://www.antifa.org.uk/nucleus3.32/nucleus332/index.php?itemid=2

 

[Azrael]

That's exactly how Griffin and Co. will play it. They'll rail against the liberal courts who're "unnecessarily" oppressing them, and milk the publicity for all it's worth.

And worse, this counter-productive ruling will remove the best evidence for the BNP's bigotry. (Like it's needed, but even so.) "See, we let everyone in, reglardless of race!" "You were forced to." "No one cares about legal history. Point is, we don't discriminate." Etc.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm not so sure, I think he's under pressure from within and this could tip the balance, I'm hoping so anyway, I'd like to someone like Bron take over, the little credibility the BNP have would soon be eroded.

Griffin has purged the party often enough that whatever pressure he might be under "from within" is containable. People need to stop seeing him as an oaf stumbling his way through politics and realise that the bloke, while not a consummate professional, knows how to play the politics game.

Also, the BNP have faded into the backgroud recently which suits them, I'd prefer to see them front and centre not being attacked soley on race, which is relevant, but questioned on their (mini) manifesto, which many people would find unpaletable.

True, but with a rather large proviso that "mainstream politics" and the politics of the BNP have some points of convergence.

At the moment they are being allowed to cherry pick the sound bites that suit their agenda and purposes better.

Of course.
The question is: When the time comes, will the media expose this and expose them, or will the media-owners find it more in the interests of the establishment to not do so?

 

[Azrael]

And if Nicholas Griffin is half as smart as is claimed (less now, after his woeful QT performance), he'd recognise that the ruling has done him an enormous favour. It's done his job for him by removing a embarrassing clause. It's removal will probably have little (if any) practical effect, but would have caused a vicious internal battle if Mr* Griffin had attempted it.

*Prefix implies neither approval or respect for Griffin, just the fact that he isn't, currently, a convict.

 

[weltweit]

I doubt he will see the inside of a Jail.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You say that but many of his rank and file aren't happy. I have a lurking account at C18. It's only a small sample, but there are similar rumblings on other scumbag forums.

If looked at in the context of most "conventional model" political parties, then he's got nothing to worry about. He may lose a small number of members, but he can play that (as he has previously) as the purging of undesirable neo-fascist elements, rather than the purging of malcontents. His party (like other parties) will be relying on a mixture of grass-roots inertia and an electoral "call to arms" to carry through 2010.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Daily Mail etc 12 year campaign against Asylum Seekers, immigrants, Muslims etc?

The Mail appeals to mostly a different demographic than the BNP. Mostly tory with the more extreme members of the readership going for UKIP. Saying that the Mail's campaigning is a better recruiting sergeant for the BNP than UAF's antics is a ridiculous comparison. The Mail is likely to influence people to vote tory or UKIP, the kids at UAF may possibly irritate non-politicals into voting hard right just to spite Weyman's Warriors.

And if you're going to whine about the Daily Mail, at least get your whining right. The Mail's "anti-alien" campaign has been going for over a hundred years. Only the pigeon-holes change. They're nothing if not consistent.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Had a close connection to be in the same room with one of the people who runs redwatch don't you think?

You could make that assumption, but that's all it is without actual knowledge that the two are indeed linked.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I find it very odd the establishment political parties are so scared of the BNP they are going to such lengths to stop Griffin standing at the general election.
They would do much better to address the issues effecting the poor white working class all three main parties seem to have abandoned.

That would mean a change of economic strategy away from neo-liberalism, and while it might garner votes in the short term, it'd range the vested interests of international capital against any party brave/stupid enough to do so.

 

[audiotech]

...the kids at UAF may possibly irritate non-politicals into voting hard right just to spite Weyman's Warriors.

Unlikely to affect the vote against that much. Most non-political voters, if there is such an animal, I suspect have never heard of UAF, or Weyman.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Sorry but we will have to agree to disagree, when Griffin and Brons were elected as MEPs the three main parties soiled their underwear.

Only because of the symbolic message the winning of those two seats sent. They don't see them as a political threat, not least because the three main parties can always "do a Thatcher", lift any policies of the BNP that look popular, and re-word them as their own.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I seriously think they are genuinely scared. They have all left areas of white working class deprived areas to rot. Nationally council house waiting list times are from 4 years to 14 years (Shelter web site.)
The surprise should be that the BMP only gets under a million votes considering just how hacked of people are.

Do "hacked off" people automatically become self-centred racists, then?
IMHO it takes more than poverty and housing issues to turn the majority of people into fascistic hordes. Arguably the situation was far more ripe for Mosley in the 1930s than it will ever be for Griffin, and yet w/c Britain didn't turn fascist then, before we knew how far fascism could go.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Unlikely to affect the vote against that much. Most non-political voters, if there is such an animal, I suspect have never heard of UAF, or Weyman.

So you don't reckon there are people in every locale that UAF have held an "action" who thought "what a bunch of shouty obnoxious cunts. They've fucked me right off. I'm going to vote BNP just to spite the twats", then?
Bear in mind that I've actually heard people say the above, although I've (hopefully) convinced them that voting BNP even as a protest against halfwits is a bad move.

 

[audiotech]

So you don't reckon there are people in every locale that UAF have held an "action" who thought "what a bunch of shouty obnoxious cunts. They've fucked me right off. I'm going to vote BNP just to spite the twats", then?
Bear in mind that I've actually heard people say the above, although I've (hopefully) convinced them that voting BNP even as a protest against halfwits is a bad move.

No, they would have probably voted BNP ayway despite what you've heard.

 

[williammartin]

Do "hacked off" people automatically become self-centred racists, then?
IMHO it takes more than poverty and housing issues to turn the majority of people into fascistic hordes. .

Some do some don't. Interesting news from Italy though relevant to the discussion:-
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5ivMTFzdRIK82mdzQA8MRuDg5AGzg

 

[Citizen66]

Do "hacked off" people automatically become self-centred racists, then?
IMHO it takes more than poverty and housing issues to turn the majority of people into fascistic hordes.

The issues turning folk towards the BNP aren't poverty and housing though, but immigration. It has been argued on here (even by yourself) that the core BNP vote is from the lower middle classes who don't generally have problems with housing or face poverty like the w/c do. Most people I know of who are suddenly championing the BNP tend to know very little about politics but follow the line of no more immigration = vote BNP.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Some do some don't. Interesting news from Italy though relevant to the discussion:-
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5ivMTFzdRIK82mdzQA8MRuDg5AGzg

In my experience (which is from about '77 onward) the majority don't. Even at the NF's zenith of influence they were politically insignificant because despite inflation, 2 oil shocks and currency devaluation, plus "immigrants coming over here and taking our jobs", the punters saw racialised politics for what they were. The danger with the BNP is that they've (to some extent successfully) played down the race politics and emphasised the "nationalist" part of the equation, something shedding their "whites only" policy will allow them to pursue with renewed vigour.

 

[MrA]

link to mini manifesto please?

BNP What did your last slave die of?

I find it very odd the establishment political parties are so scared of the BNP they are going to such lengths to stop Griffin standing at the general election.
They would do much better to address the issues effecting the poor white working class all three main parties seem to have abandoned.

I would say that labour have most to lose and it's better for them to tackle an isue whilst it's still small and manageable. So they've made a complete hash of it. The BNP nationally focus on immigration and Islamification that has a nationalistic bent. Locally the focus on minor incidents regarding race that play to local prejudices and fears.

And if Nicholas Griffin is half as smart as is claimed (less now, after his woeful QT performance), he'd recognise that the ruling has done him an enormous favour. It's done his job for him by removing a embarrassing clause. It's removal will probably have little (if any) practical effect, but would have caused a vicious internal battle if Mr* Griffin had attempted it.
*Prefix implies neither approval or respect for Griffin, just the fact that he isn't, currently, a convict.

The BNP are in dire finacial straights and he relies on the rank and file to bank roll his political aspirations, the lower middle class in target areas are unlikely to join the BNP but more likely to vote BNP.

Cyclpos did attempt to defend the membership clause but dropped the defense as his chances of winning were slim to non existant and his party funds wouldn't have taken the strain.

If looked at in the context of most "conventional model" political parties, then he's got nothing to worry about. He may lose a small number of members, but he can play that (as he has previously) as the purging of undesirable neo-fascist elements, rather than the purging of malcontents. His party (like other parties) will be relying on a mixture of grass-roots inertia and an electoral "call to arms" to carry through 2010.

He really couldn't afford to lose even a small number of members, his balance sheet was only saved, ironically, by having the two seats in the European parliament. You're quite correct in he has succesfully purged some of the neo-facists and subdued others, the others are waiting for him slip IMO. So far he's been very astute regarding internal BNP politics and it's this very reason why I'd like to see him sidelined, Collet or Bron would likely fuck up royally.

Only because of the symbolic message the winning of those two seats sent. They don't see them as a political threat, not least because the three main parties can always "do a Thatcher", lift any policies of the BNP that look popular, and re-word them as their own.

This is very likely to happen, a proven tactic in years past.

 

[philkill]

Source

The British National party is facing a crisis in the run-up to the general election after it emerged that Nick Griffin, its leader, could be jailed over its illegal “whites only” membership policy.

Here's hoping!!

Won't happen!