BBC - Owen Jones

[Mr.Bishie]

Feathering his own nest.

 

[Libertad]

I really don't get Owen. His 'Chavs' book shows a semi solid understanding of the attacks the working class have faced over the last thirty years. His heart is clearly in the right place. But he still recons vote Labour. Not just vote labour but work within it to change its direction!

that isn't doable anymore. If it ever even was. It's not even 'with no illusions' from matchstick owen, its genuine 'this is the hope of the left' stuff. How can someone who offered cogent if slightly obvious analysis of the state of play be so utterly lind to the collaborationist role played by a party that ceased to be the trade union political wing nearl 40 years ago? He's not a thick cunt so why is he still on this fucking wagon

It pays well?

 

[DotCommunist]

maybe he is still operating under those orders from the kremlin (join Labour and await the glorious day). Nobody rescinded them did they?

 

[ayatollah]

I really don't get Owen. His 'Chavs' book shows a semi solid understanding of the attacks the working class have faced over the last thirty years. His heart is clearly in the right place. But he still recons vote Labour. Not just vote labour but work within it to change its direction!

that isn't doable anymore. If it ever even was. It's not even 'with no illusions' from matchstick owen, its genuine 'this is the hope of the left' stuff. How can someone who offered cogent if slightly obvious analysis of the state of play be so utterly lind to the collaborationist role played by a party that ceased to be the trade union political wing nearl 40 years ago? He's not a thick cunt so why is he still on this fucking wagon

I'll have to explain then, Dot. Because he's a self publicising opportunist twat who's currently simply mining a profitable (for him) early career niche as the "acceptable face of pseudo Lefty radicalism", available 24/7 for comments, interviews and conferences , oh, and paid column inches for his puerile ,utterly textbook, radical-lite reformist drivel. Then, in a year or so its over to the Daily Mail with the "New, more mature, rabid right wing, Owen Jones". We have seen this stuff many, many, many, times before. (Muggeridge, Birchall, Hitchens, etc, etc, etc,etc) Betcha a fiver that's how it will go for Comrade Jones too.

 

[muscovyduck]

As with Laurie Penny, my first instinct with Owen Jones was "I don't like them but it's probably because I'm just jealous I'll never be that articulate about my political beliefs." but then I think more and more about it and actually I'm wondering if it's because:

I'll have to explain then, Dot. Because he's a self publicising opportunist twat who's currently simply mining a profitable (for him) early career niche as the "acceptable face of pseudo Lefty radicalism", available 24/7 for comments, interviews and conferences , oh, and paid column inches for his puerile ,utterly textbook, radical-lite reformist drivel. Then, in a year or so its over to the Daily Mail with the "New, more mature, rabid right wing, Owen Jones". We have seen this stuff many, many, many, times before. (Muggeridge, Birchall, Hitchens, etc, etc, etc,etc) Betcha a fiver that's how it will go for Comrade Jones too.

 

[Firky]

I really don't get Owen. His 'Chavs' book shows a semi solid understanding of the attacks the working class have faced over the last thirty years. His heart is clearly in the right place. But he still recons vote Labour. Not just vote labour but work within it to change its direction!

that isn't doable anymore. If it ever even was. It's not even 'with no illusions' from matchstick owen, its genuine 'this is the hope of the left' stuff. How can someone who offered cogent if slightly obvious analysis of the state of play be so utterly lind to the collaborationist role played by a party that ceased to be the trade union political wing nearl 40 years ago? He's not a thick cunt so why is he still on this fucking wagon

Because there's money and some milage in the niche that he's chosen. I don't know if that was a conscious choice or one he's been groomed into or if he has painted himself into a corner. I suspect a bit of all three. It's difficult not to feel a twinge of guilt when criticising him - because when he is on form he can be quite good. But so can most articulate, well mannered and intelligent people in the left (and more dangerously the right).

I wonder if he was another 10 or 20 years older he'd be so green?

 

[frogwoman]

thing is owen jones has always come across fairly normal and likeable to me. not that that means anything, i have a notoriously bad cunt radar at times

 

[butchersapron]

I'll have to explain then, Dot. Because he's a self publicising opportunist twat who's currently simply mining a profitable (for him) early career niche as the "acceptable face of pseudo Lefty radicalism", available 24/7 for comments, interviews and conferences , oh, and paid column inches for his puerile ,utterly textbook, radical-lite reformist drivel. Then, in a year or so its over to the Daily Mail with the "New, more mature, rabid right wing, Owen Jones". We have seen this stuff many, many, many, times before. (Muggeridge, Birchall, Hitchens, etc, etc, etc,etc) Betcha a fiver that's how it will go for Comrade Jones too.

He's not a faker. He's a genuine committed labourite. That's problem enough without looking to suggest he's just on the grab or secretly a tory. He is neither of those things.

 

[DotCommunist]

He's not a faker. He's a genuine committed labourite. That's problem enough without looking to suggest he's just on the grab or secretly a tory. He is neither of those things.

That's it. How can he be so fucking stupid. Thats a dead duck, worse than that its a brake on any left movements. He's no older than me ffs but still is calling 'rally to the tent! We'll make it left wing this time' as if history hasn't shown that to be literally worth the the blood laced crap I did this morning.

solidariteas with ms penny and dreams of a real labour left. Fucking hell.

 

[redsquirrel]

65 isn't all that old these days.
RIP

 

[DotCommunist]

65 isn't all that old these days.
RIP

lol

 

[redsquirrel]

Fuck, wrong thread obviously.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I really don't get Owen. His 'Chavs' book shows a semi solid understanding of the attacks the working class have faced over the last thirty years. His heart is clearly in the right place. But he still recons vote Labour. Not just vote labour but work within it to change its direction!

that isn't doable anymore. If it ever even was. It's not even 'with no illusions' from matchstick owen, its genuine 'this is the hope of the left' stuff. How can someone who offered cogent if slightly obvious analysis of the state of play be so utterly lind to the collaborationist role played by a party that ceased to be the trade union political wing nearl 40 years ago? He's not a thick cunt so why is he still on this fucking wagon

Why is his belief that a Labour party under the control of decent socialists and honest social democrats could bring about a better society any madder than the idea that the revolutionary left or the post-Labour self organised working class are going to do such a thing any time soon?

(I'm not saying he's right btw) But he's not just in it for the money he is coming from a geniuine and fairly sane postion.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I'll have to explain then, Dot. Because he's a self publicising opportunist twat who's currently simply mining a profitable (for him) early career niche as the "acceptable face of pseudo Lefty radicalism", available 24/7 for comments, interviews and conferences , oh, and paid column inches for his puerile ,utterly textbook, radical-lite reformist drivel. Then, in a year or so its over to the Daily Mail with the "New, more mature, rabid right wing, Owen Jones". We have seen this stuff many, many, many, times before. (Muggeridge, Birchall, Hitchens, etc, etc, etc,etc) Betcha a fiver that's how it will go for Comrade Jones too.

I doubt he'll move to the Mail (this keeps getting said about lefty types with very little examples of when it actually happens), reckon he'll end up in a solidly Labour seat.

 

[DotCommunist]

Why is his belief that a Labour party under the control of decent socialists and honest social democrats could bring about a better society any madder than the idea that the revolutionary left or the post-Labour self organised working class are going to do such a thing any time soon?

(I'm not saying he's right btw) But he's not just in it for the money he is coming from a geniuine and fairly sane postion.

thats whats mad you fool. It isn't, wasn't, can't be. If it was then we could say 'give em a fair shake'

but it isn't

 

[free spirit]

thats whats mad you fool. It isn't, wasn't, can't be. If it was then we could say 'give em a fair shake'

but it isn't

eh?

 

[where to]

thats whats mad you fool. It isn't, wasn't, can't be. If it was then we could say 'give em a fair shake'

but it isn't

Yeah, but spankys point is that neither probably are.

I like Jones. Its pretty clear some of you are desperate to find a reason to hate him and that searching is pretty sad. Criticism of his position is only right and proper, but imagining some of the circumstances written about above just to realise that hate is nuts frankly.

I would be interested to see who he would support in an electoral run off between an outside of labour, left candidate - with a chance of winning - and a blairite. Or if a left party was polling close to the 10%s in any euro constituency next yr (unlikely I know).

 

[DotCommunist]

Yeah, but spankys point is that neither probably are.

I like Jones. Its pretty clear some of you are desperate to find a reason to hate him and that searching is pretty sad. Criticism of his position is only right and proper, but imagining some of the circumstances written about above just to realise that hate is nuts frankly.

I would be interested to see who he would support in an electoral run off between an outside of labour, left candidate - with a chance of winning - and a blairite. Or if a left party was polling close to the 10%s in any euro constituency next yr (unlikely I know).

marry him then

 

[where to]

You're better than that. funnier too.

 

[sihhi]

Only Melanie Phillips and Suzanne Moore as leftists have gone on to write for the Mail - it would be impossible.

I would be interested to see who he would support in an electoral run off between an outside of labour, left candidate - with a chance of winning - and a blairite. Or if a left party was polling close to the 10%s in any euro constituency next yr (unlikely I know).

He supports the Labour Party.

Sure he's next to Corbyn, but the Blairites Lammy are always there you can't remove them.

The last time it happened (exit of Labour right, 1980) Labour Left figures and Militant (today's SP) said it would all be easier for the left in Labour to transform society on socialist lines etc. Reality proved otherwise because of forces outside of Owen Jones' columns.

None of this is hate.

 

[DotCommunist]

You're better than that. funnier too.

i'm really not.

but I don't 'want' to hate owen nor do I. As I've stated I just find his labourism bewildering.

 

[J Ed]

I don't see why everyone sees this as an either/or thing in terms of whether he is a genuine Labourite or is motivated by career advancement. The prospect of the latter probably has a lot of influence in convincing him of the rightness of the former.

 

[ayatollah]

You're all completely wrong about Jones. He's a total opportunist , not a naive schoolboy, he's about 29, even if he looks like one - and using his completely inexplicable media fame to fool people into wasting yet more time in trying to "push the Labour Party to the Left".

My fiver is on the table. Five years from now he'll have flogged his "self appointed spokesperson for radical Labourism" schtick to death and will be writing "how I've seen the light and embraced moderation and common sense on the right" articles for the Sun , Telegraph or Daily Mail. (or OK , be a moderate Labour MP - but that comes down to exactly the same thing). Outside of writing "Chavs" and writing newspaper articles and being a media regular the chap has no record of activist struggle at all - NONE - and despite the fact that he's older than he looks, that should tell all those giving him the benefit of the doubt all the information they need for a judgement. His dad did all the sustained political grunt work. Young Owen has done nowt (unpaid) , but just wants the fame and money. Sorry , glib fluency in putting over a political position a genuine, or even naive, radical does not make.

 

[sihhi]

My fiver is on the table. Five years from now he'll have flogged his "self appointed spokesperson for radical Labourism" schtick to death and will be writing "how I've seen the light and embraced moderation and common sense on the right" articles for the Sun , Telegraph or Daily Mail.

I strongly doubt it - I suspect he will carry on as Labour Left for the Morning Star/ Independent/ Guardian there's nothing to suggest any kind of betrayal on that score.

 

[butchersapron]

You're all completely wrong about Jones. He's a total opportunist , not a naive schoolboy, he's about 29, even if he looks like one - and using his completely inexplicable media fame to fool people into wasting yet more time in trying to "push the Labour Party to the Left".

My fiver is on the table. Five years from now he'll have flogged his "self appointed spokesperson for radical Labourism" schtick to death and will be writing "how I've seen the light and embraced moderation and common sense on the right" articles for the Sun , Telegraph or Daily Mail. (or OK , be a moderate Labour MP - but that comes down to exactly the same thing). Outside of writing "Chavs" and writing newspaper articles and being a media regular the chap has no record of activist struggle at all - NONE - and despite the fact that he's older than he looks, that should tell all those giving him the benefit of the doubt all the information they need for a judgement. His dad did all the sustained political grunt work. Young Owen has done nowt (unpaid) , but just wants the fame and money. Sorry , glib fluency in putting over a political position a genuine, or even naive, radical does not make.

Give some reasons why.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Why is his belief that a Labour party under the control of decent socialists and honest social democrats could bring about a better society any madder than the idea that the revolutionary left or the post-Labour self organised working class are going to do such a thing any time soon?

(I'm not saying he's right btw) But he's not just in it for the money he is coming from a geniuine and fairly sane postion.

Well, historically speaking, there's at least precedent for the (sometimes rapid, and unexpected) rise of new parties and movements in changing political and economic conditions. For social democratic parties being reclaimed for socialism, there's absolutely none.

 

[treelover]

Yeah, but spankys point is that neither probably are.

I like Jones. Its pretty clear some of you are desperate to find a reason to hate him and that searching is pretty sad. Criticism of his position is only right and proper, but imagining some of the circumstances written about above just to realise that hate is nuts frankly.

I would be interested to see who he would support in an electoral run off between an outside of labour, left candidate - with a chance of winning - and a blairite. Or if a left party was polling close to the 10%s in any euro constituency next yr (unlikely I know).

like your balanced posts, are you considering Left Unity?

 

[treelover]

Owen was on the BBC The Papers show last night, he is like a Rottweiler, no false cameradie with the other Tory guests, very incisive, wish he didn't look so young though..

 

[treelover]

Outside of writing "Chavs" and writing newspaper articles and being a media regular the chap has no record of activist struggle at all - NONE - and despite the fact that he's older than he looks,


I'd like more evidence of that, though he is trekking right through the country at the moment, snow and all, spreading his ideas..

 

[Lo Siento.]

Owen was on the BBC The Papers show last night, he is like a Rottweiler, no false cameradie with the other Tory guests, very incisive, wish he didn't look so young though..

he's clearly a vampire. It's the only possible explanation for his having a face born in 1995 and politics born in 1980.