BBC - Owen Jones
- Thread starter Zabo
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Favelado
J'adore South Shore
It might be a coincidence.
Favelado
J'adore South Shore
Well, I guess it might. I'll employ a more suitable modal verb for you next time Santino. You're welcome.
sihhi it does not stand for Council Housing Associated Vermin, that is utter bollocks. It comes from "charver", an ancient NE term (romany in origin IIRC) for anyone who was not afraid to go against the grain of what is deemed as socially acceptable or a bit of petty crime.
It's been used by people around here for years with no negative connotations. I can remember using it at first school to describe the kids who poked holes in your milk bottle tops ffs
Council House Associated Vermin was in use long long before Owen Jones wrote Chavs, I heard it being used as a etymology for the word Chav at least 10 years ago now. It's still an urban myth that this is what Chav stands for.
I think you're clutching at straws trying to give him shit for that.
Incidentally round my area it's a word I never heard used until it started appearing in the papers. The term of choice for somethign similar to Chav was townie or perhaps scratter.
sunnysidedown
caput mortuum
I first heard Charver being used to describe young lads from the West End of Newcastle in the early 90's, they would often wear a sheepskin coat and have a small pencil style moustache (known as a tack-tash), and were often in possession of something to sell (tack/black or a car radio/item of clothing nicked off a washing line) and would often be armed with a knife or occasionally a sawn-off shotgun.
It seems a younger generation came through replacing the sheep skin with burberry gear and a cap.
As for Chav, I think I first heard that used in early 2000 by someone from Leicestershire or Nottingham who used it as an acronym for Council House Associated Vermin. (which seemed a bit of a play on C.H.U.D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.H.U.D.)
I used to go to the Beer Pigs Scooter Club do's there back in the 80's, is it still standing?
It seems a younger generation came through replacing the sheep skin with burberry gear and a cap.
As for Chav, I think I first heard that used in early 2000 by someone from Leicestershire or Nottingham who used it as an acronym for Council House Associated Vermin. (which seemed a bit of a play on C.H.U.D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.H.U.D.)
I used to go to the Beer Pigs Scooter Club do's there back in the 80's, is it still standing?
Serotonin
history of all hitherto existing society is BLANK?
It was Townie round my way too. If you were a bit alternative you got called a jitter.
Steel Icarus
we move
"Chavvy" is used like "mate" in at least one Irvine Welsh book, predating when I first heard the word "chav" used pejoratively (in 2004, and I only know this cos I was on holiday and someone had a copy of The Daily Mail).
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
So the mere fact of being a parliamentary researcher renders him middle class?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You think being an MP doesn't make you middle class though.
Does that mean Dennis Skinner is more middle-class than Jacob Rees-Mogg or Zac Goldsmith, because he's been an MP for longer than them?
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
His CV and trajectory indicates his class fully. Stop being stupid.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
There's a line, once you're over it - and all MPs are over it - then you're over it. Not interested in any such silliness as who is more m/c. And it's not (not solely anyway) about the level of wages before you throw Dennis Skinner takes the av wage or something similar at me, it's about your role in the political arm of the the state. Or i suppose we could potentially have 650 working class MPs couldn't we? The fact of them being MPs changing nothing.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
How much time have you spent in parliament this last week then?
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
a bit. Does that make me a bit middle class? I don't see being an MP is enough to make you middle class - was Terry Fields middle class?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
MPs are middle class. Even ones with scouse accents.
Is your class analysis really this shallow?
Is your class analysis really this shallow?
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
wasn't he on a workers wage?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Probably. More to the point, he was an MP. A Member of Parliament, the political body that fronts up the capitalist system and whose function is to ensure the conditions for its continued reproduction. Of course, i can see why someone who believes in socialism through parliament would believe that it's possible for an MP not to be middle class, or playing a role in that continued reproduction
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I wasn't talking to you. I do note your purely parliamentary route though.
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
Probably. More to the point, he was an MP. A Member of Parliament, the political body that fronts up the capitalist system and whose function is to ensure the conditions for its continued reproduction. Of course, i can see why someone who believes in socialism through parliament would believe that it's possible for an MP not to be middle class, or playing a role in that continued reproduction
the only people I think are middle class are social workers and people who work in bookshops. Other than that it's the workers versus the fat controller. I'm lumpen like that.
eta: Oh, and people who subscribe to Red Pepper.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
note it? Why?
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
shit- I used to work in a bookshop. Really not doing well on the prole-o-meterthe only people I think are middle class are social workers and people who work in bookshops. Other than that it's the workers versus the fat controller. I'm lumpen like that.
So owen didn't invent the acroynm? I'll forgive him for that much but 10 years ago isn't very long ago at all (maybe feels like it for you because you were about 13). It's a still a load of shite to say that it stands for council HA vermin. It's only in recent times, i.e. the last ten years or so that it has been used as a slur in the way he describes.
Like the lass training to be a barrister said who calls her self a chav / charv, there's a lot more to it than Little Britain's image of a chav and what our Owen says it is.
And of course you're not going to hear it around your way until the papers used it. It is regional dialect.
Zote!
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
It's just class envy on my part. It would have been my dream job to work in a secondhand bookshop . . . with no customers.
Alas, it wasn't to be.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Because it's another example of you attempting to have your cake and to eat it too:
I want to tear down the bourgeois institutions (look how radical i am) - partly through those same bourgeois institutions (look how sensible i am, any jobs going?).
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I saw someone reading New Internationalist on the train the other day:the only people I think are middle class are social workers and people who work in bookshops. Other than that it's the workers versus the fat controller. I'm lumpen like that.
eta: Oh, and people who subscribe to Red Pepper.
Well, you know how the English upper classes is thick and ignorant
(that's true)
And you seen the scum from Notting Hill and Moseley
They called CND?
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
There is no contradiction between recognising the ideological and political significance of bourgeois democracy and attempting to use it insofar as that's possible for a politics of class struggle.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
Mine too - but alas I was working resentfully for a big chain as a seasonal blow-in on shit wages to sell (mostly) shit books to (mostly) shit people.
sunnysidedown
Can't quote you for some reason, it's still there and has had a lick of paint recently. I haven't been in since my old man took bad though
Can't quote you for some reason, it's still there and has had a lick of paint recently. I haven't been in since my old man took bad though
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