BBC - Owen Jones

[DotCommunist]

It's like someone who willingly entered the bed and snuggled under the quilt, under historical conditions under which a warm bed offered the only realistic hope in modern Britain of sheltering the productive energies from the attacks of entropy. Now hours later, under worsening attacks from both the forces of want breakfast, and the forces of full bladder, the bed entryist is reconsidering his position, wondering what will be the right time to leave the refuge of the warm bed, to attempt to reestablish a warm refuge based on a united front of trousers and woolly jumper.

It only needs someone to lay a breakfast maker of revolutionary thought.

 

[Random]

Just want to say I'm really impressed delroy that you bother to write such long thoughful posts that work through arguments; though I don't necessarily agree. You too, sihi. I'm nore into snide one-liners these days.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

breakfast maker

 

[Delroy Booth]

Just want to say I'm really impressed delroy that you bother to write such long thoughful posts that work through arguments; though I don't necessarily agree. You too, sihi. I'm nore into snide one-liners these days.

Thank you, but steady on now I wouldn't say they're thought through I haven't got the attention span for that. And really I'm just procrastinating from emailing CV's to people and stuck at home broke coz it's arctic and I'm broke.

 

[Random]

Thank you, but steady on now I wouldn't say they're thought through

....I very carefully didn't say that

 

[articul8]

Didn't you willingly enter Labourism after being outside it? Now you're wondering how to break from it?

the point is not how I as an individual can break from it, but what would allow a significant mass break from Labourism to become politically viable.

 

[Firky]

Just want to say I'm really impressed delroy that you bother to write such long thoughful posts that work through arguments; though I don't necessarily agree. You too, sihi. I'm nore into snide one-liners these days.

They haven't been worn down by a over ten years of bean

 

[Delroy Booth]

I'd never seen this before, thought it might belong here. Great intro by William F Buckley

 

[Firky]

Credit to button.

 

[Firky]

I'd never seen this before, thought it might belong here. Great intro by William F Buckley

Have you seen the Chomsky one?

I think Chomsky even said a few words about him in an orbit'

 

[butchersapron]

I'd never seen this before, thought it might belong here. Great intro by William F Buckley

You know Buckley was scum right? (Just checking)

 

[Delroy Booth]

You know Buckley was scum right? (Just checking)

come on

 

[butchersapron]

You may be surprised how many people mistake him for overly-sensitive troubadour Tim Buckley. I've seen it all.

 

[redsquirrel]

the point is not how I as an individual can break from it, but what would allow a significant mass break from Labourism to become politically viable.

Which will be achieved by getting people to vote Labour and Lib Dem, oh and for AV.

 

[Frances Lengel]

It's like someone who willingly entered the bed and snuggled under the quilt, under historical conditions under which a warm bed offered the only realistic hope in modern Britain of sheltering the productive energies from the attacks of entropy. Now hours later, under worsening attacks from both the forces of want breakfast, and the forces of full bladder, the bed entryist is reconsidering his position, wondering what will be the right time to leave the refuge of the warm bed, to attempt to reestablish a warm refuge based on a united front of trousers and woolly jumper.

But we all know he'll make time for a swift thrap onto yeaterdays t shirt first.

 

[articul8]

Which will be achieved by getting people to vote Labour and Lib Dem, oh and for AV.

I don't suggest anyone votes lib dem. But av though far from ideal would have started a dynamic towards a PR system where the emergence of a viable left party becomes possible.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Vague rallying cry! Same but different!

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ft-to-counter-capitalisms-crisis-8459099.html

 

[butchersapron]

He actually says:

I’ve met thousands who want to do something with their anger. Until now, I have struggled with an answer.

And, the answer that came upon him is - as he goes to great lengths to make clear - supporting labour and through this support somehow pressuring the centre to adopt radical left-wing measures. It's the early 80s everyone into the party stuff again, but with a twist as it's clear to all where labour are and where they intend to stay, the twist being everyone into the party but outside.

The stuff he's calling for, what on earth does he think people have been doing the last 3 years? And what have they had to spend their time doing - fighting labour councils who are imposing cuts locally and a party re-inforcing the propaganda logic of them nationally, whilst preparing their own version of them for when they get re-elected.

 

[Steel Icarus]

He actually says:



And, the answer that came upon him is - as he goes to great lengths to make clear - supporting labour and through this support somehow pressuring the centre to adopt radical left-wing measures. It's the early 80s everyone into the party stuff again, but with a twist as it's clear to all where labour are and where they intend to stay, the twist being everyone into the party but outside.

The stuff he's calling for, what on earth does he think people have been doing the last 3 years? And what have they had to spend their time doing - fighting labour councils who are imposing cuts locally and a party re-inforcing the propaganda logic of them nationally, whilst preparing their own version of them for when they get re-elected.

Exactly this. "Everyone into the party but outside" made me laugh. Yeah, I'm seriously doubting whether he'll be able to cut the apron strings, if indeed he was ever going to.

 

[Random]

Vague rallying cry! Same but different!

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ft-to-counter-capitalisms-crisis-8459099.html

"We could link together workers facing falling wages while their tax credits are cut; unemployed people demonised by a cynical media and political establishment; crusaders against the mass tax avoidance of the wealthy; sick and disabled people having basic support stripped away; campaigners against crippling cuts to our public services; young people facing a future of debt, joblessness and falling living standards; and trade unions standing their ground in the onslaught against workers’ rights... it is a mystery that such a network does not already exist."

The fact that he's unable to work out a few major reasons why such a network doesn't already exist does not bode well for his ability to actually create this kind of network.

Hey everyone! The emperor does have clothes!

Edit: and I'm speaking as someone who's more and more in favour of the broadest possible work to defend against the current class war being waged by the rich. But we can't just pretend that the reason it's not already happened is because a well-connected twitterer has failed to think of it.

 

[butchersapron]

...and one of the reasons it's not developed as we like despite promising beginnings is the partial destruction of such groupings by the pressure applied by labour councils imposing cuts that leads to people having to deal with (or feel as if they must) their own individual situations as a priority, atomising those initiatives. That cannot be got past by internet rhetoric about but i call on labour to oppose cuts.

 

[sihhi]

This is lies.

I’ve met thousands who want to do something with their anger. Until now, I have struggled with an answer.

Hmmm... he well knew what to do when he was telling readers of the Morning Star:

LAST Friday, the most important campaign of our generation was launched. John McDonnell's promise to challenge new Labour in the forthcoming leadership elections represents the beginning of a fightback to reclaim Labour as the party of working people.

It is a campaign that will draw on many of the movements that have inspired young people over the past decade - not least the struggles for global justice and against tuition fees and the war on Iraq. That is why it is crucial for young people to be at the very forefront of this historic campaign.

Only the leadership is ever blamed and he was all about using front organisations to build the party - his party - the worst Second International party in the history of the world - the British Labour Party:

There is hardly a lack of radicalism among young people. The global justice and anti-war movements have proved that. However, understandably, thousands of us have deserted the Labour Party because of the reactionary policies of its leadership.

Young socialists are scattered in a number of different campaigns and groups or, having failed to find any viable alternative, have abandoned politics altogether. However, for the first time in years, we have a chance to elect a candidate who is against tuition fees, in favour of a living wage without exceptions and for an end to child poverty. It is more crucial than ever for the young left to unite and join this campaign.

Next Monday, we will be launching a young socialists' network which will bring together socialists from both inside and outside the Labour party. The fightback begins here. It's time for you to get involved.

Owen Jones is co-ordinator of Labour Representation Committee Youth and can be contacted at jonesop@parliament.uk. There will be a youth caucus at the LRC Conference at TUC Congress House on Saturday July 22. The launch of the young socialists network will be on July 24 at 7pm in the Wilson Room, Portcullis House, Westminster. John McDonnell will be speaking.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/layout/set/print/content/view/full/32616

Then using the internet to build the party:

Left New Media: next meeting details
Comrades, as requested:

LeftNewMediaForum

Reclaiming the internet

Chaired by John McDonnell MP

Next meeting: Monday 15th December 7.30pm, Grimond Room, Portcullis House, London, Near Westminster Tube (SW1)

If you're planning to be there, please email Owen at jonesop@parliament.uk to confirm attendance and to be added to the forums. Thanks!
Yrs waiting for the van,
PRxx

http://pennyred.blogspot.co.uk/2008/12/left-new-media-next-meeting-details.html

Then using regionally-based non-party/party front groups to build the party.

Comrades,

To build on the successes of the John4Leader campaign in mobilising thousands of activists, we're setting up local LRC groups right across the country.

The LRC is a national network of Labour party activists and trade unionists who are fighting for socialism in the Labour party. Membership is open to members of the Labour party or of no party at all. We hope that this new email list will bring together activists in the Merseyside area - in helping to plan local activities, inform activists of upcoming events, and discuss the current political situation.
To post to the list, just send an email to merseysidelrc@yahoogroups.com.

To find our more about the LRC or to join, please visit the website at www.l-r-c.org.uk. To read John McDonnell's blog, please go to www.john4leader.org.uk. If you want any more information, please don't hesitate to email me at jonesop@parliament.uk.

Best wishes,
Owen Jones
LRC National Committee

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/merseysidelrc/?m=0
A wag might ask what successes of the John4Leader campaign?


I feel I'm being had with every column he writes.

 

[Random]

I feel I'm being had with every column he writes.

In other words, anyone who jumps into bed with Jones in a network like this should expect to be sold out the second the network endangers the LP in any way, or to be abandoned in favour of yet another LP leadership challenge.

 

[sihhi]

In other words, anyone who jumps into bed with Jones in a network like this should expect to be sold out the second the network endangers the LP in any way, or to be abandoned in favour of yet another LP leadership challenge.

It's dishonest because there already are about half a dozen networks like this - the National Shop Stewards Network, Trade Union and Socialist Coalition (the Scottish Anti-Cuts Coalition) & the Campaign for a New Workers' Party, the Coalition of Resistance, the People’s Assemblies, the Right to Work, the Socialist Campaign to Stop the Tories and Fascists, the Green Left organisation...

OJ should at least openly declare 'I was John McDonnell's parliamentary aide for a while so my view might be compromised'. It just seems dishonest to say 'Until now, I have struggled with an answer'.

 

[Steel Icarus]

It's dishonest because there already are about half a dozen networks like this - the National Shop Stewards Network, Trade Union and Socialist Coalition (the Scottish Anti-Cuts Coalition) & the Campaign for a New Workers' Party, the Coalition of Resistance, the People’s Assemblies, the Right to Work, the Socialist Campaign to Stop the Tories and Fascists, the Green Left organisation...

OJ should at least openly declare 'I was John McDonnell's parliamentary aide for a while so my view might be compromised'. It just seems dishonest to say 'Until now, I have struggled with an answer'.

Have I your permission to challenge him on this? Whether or not he'll ignore it remains to be seen.

 

[sihhi]

Have I your permission to challenge him on this? Whether or not he'll ignore it remains to be seen.

On what?

 

[Steel Icarus]

If you mean what subject - being McDonnell's aide while "struggling for an anwser"
If you mean what platform - Twitter.

Only asking cos I'm going to use almost your exact words, like.

 

[Random]

It's dishonest because there already are about half a dozen networks like this - the National Shop Stewards Network, Trade Union and Socialist Coalition (the Scottish Anti-Cuts Coalition) & the Campaign for a New Workers' Party, the Coalition of Resistance, the People’s Assemblies, the Right to Work, the Socialist Campaign to Stop the Tories and Fascists, the Green Left organisation...

OJ should at least openly declare 'I was John McDonnell's parliamentary aide for a while so my view might be compromised'. It just seems dishonest to say 'Until now, I have struggled with an answer'.

Yes, exactly. That's part of what I meant earlier, about obvious reasons why such a network doesn't already exist: Because it already exists several times over. Whereas I assumed he was just being a bit thick and also pretending to be naive, you're right that he's really being more on the dishonest side.

"'Until now, I have struggled with an answer'" It could have been scripted by Monbiot. Columnists keep re-inventing themselves, having fake revelations. It's a basic part of the way they try to made themselves into a dramatic person, who things happen to, who makes great intellectual efforts.

 

[smokedout]

It's dishonest because there already are about half a dozen networks like this - the National Shop Stewards Network, Trade Union and Socialist Coalition (the Scottish Anti-Cuts Coalition) & the Campaign for a New Workers' Party, the Coalition of Resistance, the People’s Assemblies, the Right to Work, the Socialist Campaign to Stop the Tories and Fascists, the Green Left organisation...

there's also an informal network, unaffiliated - although involving some members - of all those groups, a serious attempt to drag that under the control of labour would destroy everything that's been achieved till now (which isn't fantastic, but is something)

 

[Steel Icarus]

Hang on, what about C.L.A.S.S. - for whom Jones is policy adviser? And the Coalition of Resistance, on whose front page a video of Jones appears?