BBC license fee ‘to be abolished in 2027’. What will that mean?

[Curiouscarl]

anecdote is not persuasive evidence

I'm not trying to persuade.

You'll understand when the Nurse who treats you. Cannot put an IV in.

 

[Sue]

Swings both ways, but always towards the establishment.

Anyway, back to the license fee...

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not trying to persuade.

i think we can both agree on that

 

[LDC]

Deleted, can't be arsed to argue with dickheads.

 

[tonysingh]

Even though I've never met you I'll always held you in high regard. This, however rocks my whole world view.

For such an intellectual and highbrow comedy, Mrs Brown's Boys really does make people angry....

 

[Pickman's model]

For such an intellectual and highbrow comedy, Mrs Brown's Boys really does make people angry....

it's not the worst thing i have ever seen. that'd be oh dr beeching. but it's close.

 

[marty21]

It's certainly a sign of middle Englandness, mind

True , there's plenty I don't like about the BBC, but it is criticised by Tory Governments, Labour Governments & Coalition Governments, basically any government is almost duty-bound to have a pop. So when the Brexiter-type #defundthebbc folk have a pop , they are attacking the BBC for criticising Boris or Brexit or not attacking Covid rules. Yet when Labour were in power , they probably weren't criticising the BBC as much.

The licence fee part funding is an issue , a lot of the BBC funding is direct , so I assume that will continue, but maybe a mixture of subscriptions & maybe advertising on some channels ( BBC 3 and 4 probably & some of the radio stations) will find the rest. I can't see government killing off the BBC.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

So when the Brexiter-type #defundthebbc folk have a pop , they are attacking the BBC for criticising Boris or Brexit or not attacking Covid rules. Yet when Labour were in power , they probably weren't criticising the BBC as much.

The Tories have a long standing aim of selling off the BBC. I am sure the issues you raise and the BBC coverage of them irks the Tories but this runs much deeper and is about a core principle for them: that culture, news and entertainment should be provided by capital and not the state.

 

[Sprocket.]

Apparently Nadine Dorries is coming on 5Live shortly to explain why cutting the license fee will aid with the rising cost of living.
Really, so cutting benefits and not cancelling VAT on fuel bills in their bubble doesn’t help those on the lowest or no income.
Bastards.

'Pull the other one': Nadine Dorries ridiculed for claims BBC licence fee freeze will help cost of living

Lucy Powell, Labour's shadow culture secretary, said: "The government claims this is all about the cost of living crisis. Pull the other one"

www.bigissue.com

 

[mauvais]

Enders have put out a report today but you can't actually read it unless you're subscribed to it, and I think it would be unwise if I shared the one I was sent. It's strongly favourable towards PSB and I wouldn't call it impartial.

Public service television: Something for everyone | Enders Analysis

There are just under eight million adults in the UK who only have access to free-to-air television, relying on it as a vital source of entertainment, information and company These viewers watch much more television, and depend heavily upon the diversity and quality of content delivered by the...

www.endersanalysis.com

However, some stats:

• eight million adults [out of 52m] in the UK only have access to free-to-air television [Freeview/Freesat] - 3.9m ABC1, 4.0 C2DE
• "In 2021, an estimated 22% of all video viewing time on any screen was to the BBC, and a further 28% to the commercial PSB groups (other broadcasters made up 21%, SVOD 12% and other online video including YouTube 17%)"
• "those over 65 relying on PSB programming for 73% of their video time"
• "[PSB is] also more popular with the under 34s than many realise, continuing to account for 28% of this age group’s total time in 2021"

 

[ska invita]

The Tories have a long standing aim of selling off the BBC. I am sure the issues you raise and the BBC coverage of them irks the Tories but this runs much deeper and is about a core principle for them: that culture, news and entertainment should be provided by capital and not the state.

agree ...the USA state-to-business model is the model for everything coming our way

 

[metalguru]

The BBC exists to manufacture, and impose, a legitimate British culture. One that has tended to be white, conservative and middle-class. It inculcates the legitimate values, forms of speech, forms of behaviours, the boundaries of discourse and entertainment.

It is, and apologies for the use of Althusser here, an ideological state apparatus par excellence.

Instead we should let ourselves be almost completely taken over by US television - where of course no such cultural problems exist!

 

[bimble]

‘if it was left to the market it would be better’ is a surprising argument to hear so much of here.

 

[marty21]

The Tories have a long standing aim of selling off the BBC. I am sure the issues you raise and the BBC coverage of them irks the Tories but this runs much deeper and is about a core principle for them: that culture, news and entertainment should be provided by capital and not the state.

Given the rush they made to privatise Rail Services and the decades of rail clusterfucks since , they should have a word with themselves about their flawed ideology .

 

[kabbes]

‘if it was left to the market it would be better’ is a surprising argument to hear so much of here.

Can you provide some examples of this being said? I am not seeing it. I think you are misinterpreting. When you are surprised to see something, one possibility has to be that you aren’t really seeing the thing you think you are.

 

[bimble]

Can you provide some examples of this being said? I am not seeing it. I think you are misinterpreting. When you are surprised to see something, one possibility has to be that you aren’t really seeing the thing you think you are.

I was looking at @chilango’s posts. The idea that it’s a piece of state apparatus disseminating an imposed monocultural hegemonic vision of Britishness etc. the obvious corrolary is that the state should not be involved with funding cultural production it should instead be left to the market isn’t it? That this would be better. What else ?

 

[chilango]

Instead we should let ourselves be almost completely taken over by US television - where of course no such cultural problems exist!

Why choose either?

 

[Gromit]

Native English speakers tend to have less children. Resulting in population shrinkage.

We've been using immigration to sustain economic growth.

Foreign languages are on the rise.

It's only a matter of time before a English language channel in the UK is unnecessary. Let alone a state mandated one.

Let's face most of the TV I watch now is Korean and I don't even speak Korean.

 

[chilango]

I was looking at @chilango’s posts. The idea that it’s a piece of state apparatus disseminating an imposed monocultural hegemonic vision of Britishness etc. the obvious corrolary is that the state should not be involved with funding cultural production it should instead be left to the market isn’t it? That this would be better. What else ?

You know there are alternatives to both the State and the Market. In music, for example, there is a DIY punk (and other) culture that has existed for decades now. Other forms of culture could be produced and consumed like this without a reliance upon the State or the market.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Can’t say I’m personally arsed about the BBC. That it has come about following cosy chats between Murdoch and Johnson is probably something that deserves attention though.

 

[chilango]

...and the inability, or unwillingness, to see beyond this choice of "British State" produced culture vs. "American market" produced culture is testament to how our horizons have been reduced to almost nothing.

 

[bimble]

You know there are alternatives to both the State and the Market. In music, for example, there is a DIY punk (and other) culture that has existed for decades now. Other forms of culture could be produced and consumed like this without a reliance upon the State or the market.

I think this is very sweet but silly, sorry. It takes a lot of people to make say a film, hundreds of them, they will probably want paying. How do you envisage that happening?

 

[brogdale]

...and the inability, or unwillingness, to see beyond this choice of "British State" produced culture vs. "American market" produced culture is testament to how our horizons have been reduced to almost nothing.

In a nutshell; neoliberal capital or the neoliberal state.

 

[ska invita]

...and the inability, or unwillingness, to see beyond this choice of "British State" produced culture vs. "American market" produced culture is testament to how our horizons have been reduced to almost nothing.

i mainly watch youtube by some margin as i like DIY productions even if flawed
nonetheless we are talking about the getting rid of one of the two options you highlight and a government wedded to the other option you mention

 

[chilango]

I think this is very sweet but silly, sorry. It takes a lot of people to make say a film, hundreds of them, they will probably want paying. How do you envisage that happening?

I used to have a handbook on precisely how to do that. The Guerilla Filmmaker or something. There have been plenty of good films, produced independently and on small budgets.

 

[bimble]

I used to have a handbook on precisely how to do that. The Guerilla Filmmaker or something. There have been plenty of good films, produced independently and on small budgets.

Great stuff. Do you think the end of state funding for cultural production would help further this sort of aim somehow ? I don’t see how.

 

[chilango]

Great stuff. Do you think the end of state funding for cultural production would help further this sort of aim somehow ? I don’t see how.

Yeah. It might, it might not. I'm not hugely bothered to be honest. The point is that there are alternatives if people really want them. People have written, sung, danced etc. etc. outside of both state and market for millennia. They'll carry on doing so.

 

[mauvais]

...and the inability, or unwillingness, to see beyond this choice of "British State" produced culture vs. "American market" produced culture is testament to how our horizons have been reduced to almost nothing.

This is all perfectly interesting theory but like most such discussions, wholly absent of any praxis. How are you going to establish and fund something else under current or foreseeable conditions? (current BBC revenue is ~£5bn pa)

And if you did, how are you going to convince anyone to engage with it, when even the analysis on here is on the basis of whether it offers good personal consumer value or not?

Yours is a perspective relating to the here and now but for some reason set in a different, imagined world that exists favourably on your terms, not the one we live in or apparently ever will. And that's fine in itself but the consequence of this is always letting actual conditional or partial good slide into the abyss undefended in favour of a better dream that will never be close to realised.

 

[bimble]

Yeah. It might, it might not. I'm not hugely bothered to be honest. The point is that there are alternatives if people really want them. People have written, sung, danced etc. etc. outside of both state and market for millennia. They'll carry on doing so.

but am I getting the wrong end of the stick or do you think the ending of state mandated funding for the bbc would be a good thing? Like, get rid of it and new better flowers will bloom or something.

 

[chilango]

This is all perfectly interesting theory but like most such discussions, wholly absent of any praxis. How are you going to establish and fund something else under current or foreseeable conditions? (current BBC revenue is ~£5bn pa)

And if you did, how are you going to convince anyone to engage with it, when even the analysis on here is on the basis of whether it offers good personal consumer value or not?

Yours is a perspective relating to the here and now but for some reason set in a different, imagined world that exists favourably on your terms, not the one we live in or apparently ever will. And that's fine in itself but the consequence of this is always letting actual conditional or partial good slide into the abyss undefended in favour of a better dream that will never be close to realised.

I think you're completely misreading me.

I've no desire to "establish and fund something else" that is comparable in scope, scale or function to the BBC. I'm advocating a DIY approach to cultural production and consumption as an alternative to the State and the Market. It already happens to an extent.