Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

[8ball]

Wow.

Fuck off.

That said, the logic looks sound.

 

[8ball]

I have every sympathy for the view that says that this is best dealt with structurally...

Me too.

I get to be self-righteous with no commitment to actually do anything.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

No and yes. It's often admired, but is also the plan b go-to after when having your own biological children isn't on.

Yeah I think that was kinda my point, about it being the default second rate option. Adopted children are also often stigmatised and bullied by their peers too.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Fuck me, Jeff, you really have turned into a total wanker over the last couple of years.

What can I say, I've been trying my hardest to catch up with you. Glad I've finally made it!

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Yeah I think that was kinda my point, about it being the default second rate option. Adopted children are also often stigmatised and bullied by their peers too.

And likely to be suffering from some sort of attachment disorder from early trauma and could need far more support and help. Kids arent just given up because they were born out of wedlock anymore...

That said I totally and utterly take my hat of to people who choose to do this.

 

[Spymaster]

What can I say, I've been trying my hardest to catch up with you. Glad I've finally made it!

Don't kid yourself. You've still got a long way to go.

 

[Enviro]

Agriculture accounts for around 10% of global emissions caused by human activity, so emissions would go down by a maximum of 10% even if every single person on the planet went vegan tomorrow.

Saying "this is the single biggest way to reduce your impact" about anything kind of clouds the fact that it isn't as much what you do as where you live - a childless vegan American or Australian will still be responsible for hundreds of times more emissions than somebody in Uganda or Nepal who might eat meat from time to time and have a few kids.

So while people can point fingers at each other all day for not making minor lifestyle adjustments, we're all massive energy hogs, we're all responsible for what's happening to the planet, and the single biggest thing we can do is to stop electing governments that don't take climate change seriously.

Does that 10% account for refrigerated transport of carcasses and meats to processing and to retail outlets, and other related emissions producing activities, or to the agricultural aspect only? What about methane produced by livestock? What about land clearance/ deforestation for livestock farming and negative influence this has?

I think that the statement '...emissions would go down by a maximum of 10% even if every single person on the planet went vegan tomorrow' is likely an underestimate.

Whilst I agree that seeking structural change should/ could be the best primary goal to reduce global impacts, I think that taking actions at the individual level (such as not having children or deciding to reduce meat consumption) are beneficial, also.

 

[ddraig]

soooooo much defensive posts! and attack/abuse/childishness as form of defence! as per usual

 

[Spymaster]

soooooo much defensive posts! and attack/abuse/childishness as form of defence! as per usual

Might have something to do with the thread being a pile of sanctimonious dog shit. As per usual.

 

[8ball]

Might have something to do with the thread being a pile of sanctimonious dog shit. As per usual.

To be fair, I was going to tag this thread since it's a rare case of a pretty sound study forming the basis for a thread.
Though a lot of the commentary is dog shit, tbf.

edit: #edsoundstudy

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Why should we reduce our impact on the planet? Who or what are we saving it for?

 

[8ball]

Why should we reduce our impact on the planet? Who or what are we saving it for?

The bees.

 

[ddraig]

Why should we reduce our impact on the planet? Who or what are we saving it for?

your kids for one

 

[ddraig]

Might have something to do with the thread being a pile of sanctimonious dog shit. As per usual.

course, must be, absolutely no truth in it whatsoever! that's that dealt with, carry on
next!

 

[8ball]

your kids for one

I see a synthesis between Bahnhof and Jeff's solutions about to form here...

 

[Jeff Robinson]

And likely to be suffering from some sort of attachment disorder from early trauma and could need far more support and help. Kids arent just given up because they were born out of wedlock anymore...

That said I totally and utterly take my hat of to people who choose to do this.

I had actually assumed that there would be significant numbers of neonatal infants in need of adoption in the UK, but a quick google search suggests that there are very few. I suspect you are right that many children in need of adoption do suffer from various forms trauma and this would require extra commitments from adoptive parents. My earlier statement that adoption should be 'the first port of call' looks overly demanding in light of this information and as a result I am retracting it. Agree with you that people who do choose to do this are worthy of high praise.

 

[Spymaster]

course, must be, absolutely no truth in it whatsoever! that's that dealt with, carry on
next!

Most sensible post you've made for ages.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Farting less is the only way to save the planet...

Eating more veg makes me fart more. And it doesn’t taste as nice as steak.

 

[Red Cat]

And likely to be suffering from some sort of attachment disorder from early trauma and could need far more support and help. Kids arent just given up because they were born out of wedlock anymore...

That said I totally and utterly take my hat of to people who choose to do this.

Was about to say something similar re. trauma. Some people have a very romantic idea about adoption.

Those who do this as well as the adopted children need a lot of support.

 

[Pickman's model]

i bet the dinosaurs had similar discussions about how to save the planet up to the moment they all died off

 

[existentialist]

Was about to say something similar re. trauma. Some people have a very romantic idea about adoption.

Those who do this as well as the adopted children need a lot of support.

And yet they all too often don't get it. I know of two cases where the adoption failed, at great emotional cost (including a marriage breakdown) to adults and children, and where the parents were told very categorically that, as adopters, even of severely disturbed children, they were on their own.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Killing yourself will be more effective

I believe the correct reply to that is "you first."

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Do many vegans become vegans for environment reasons? I think all the ones I know have done it because they feel bad for animals getting chopped up for dinner.

It's one of the reasons that I went veggie. I also have a number of health problems that are helped by eating a better diet. Being kind to animals was actually last on my list. TBH, I think its one of the least valid reasons for going vegan for the simple fact that if you stop eating meat, they'll just ship it somewhere else. Meat consumption is dropping in the US, but its going up nearly everywhere else. Unfortunately, animals will suffer regardless of what I eat. If I eat a vegan diet, it just means that my personal responsibility for that suffering is less.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Do many vegans become vegans for environment reasons? I think all the ones I know have done it because they feel bad for animals getting chopped up for dinner.

I'm not vegan but the environmental effects are why I have been cutting down on my dairy consumption more and more. I don't eat meat at home, bar the occasional tin of tuna and piece of salmon, and very rarely eat out (once every 2 or 3 months?).

Years ago I was veggie for about 10 years, and that was for animal welfare reasons. I'm far more motivated by environmental concerns now.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Farting less is the only way to save the planet...

I apologise for single-handedly causing climate change. My bad.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Probably won't end well unless you have money.

That's a mantra that covers just about everything.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Yeah I find anti-natalism a pretty compelling position at the present juncture. For those who want to have children it seems to me that adoption should be the first port of call: you are giving an existing child the chance of a good life, you are not adding an additional resource consumer to the world and the female doesn’t have to go through the strenuous labour of pregnancy and birthing. I understand the strong drive many have to want their own biological children, but the countervailing considerations seem sufficiently weighty to try to override them it seems to me.

I've been quite clear for some time that while I don't particularly want children, if I had a change of heart I'd apply to adopt because I can't in good conscience bring another child into the world. It's basically the same as getting my cat from the shelter rather than a breeder, imo

 

[8ball]

I've been quite clear for some time that while I don't particularly want children, if I had a change of heart I'd apply to adopt because I can't in good conscience bring another child into the world. It's basically the same as getting my cat from the shelter rather than a breeder, imo

Yeah, and the ones you get from breeders are expensive and neurotic anyway.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Yeah, and the ones you get from breeders are expensive and neurotic anyway.

And you can't even lock them up in their kennel or keep them on a leash if they misbehave.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

It's one of the reasons that I went veggie. I also have a number of health problems that are helped by eating a better diet. Being kind to animals was actually last on my list. TBH, I think its one of the least valid reasons for going vegan for the simple fact that if you stop eating meat, they'll just ship it somewhere else. Meat consumption is dropping in the US, but its going up nearly everywhere else. Unfortunately, animals will suffer regardless of what I eat. If I eat a vegan diet, it just means that my personal responsibility is less.

Notice that this argument, if correct, applies with equal force against the environmental argument for veganism. But the argument is not correct. You are conflating correlation and causation. That meat consumption and vegetarianism/veganism have both increased does not mean that an increase in vegetarianism/veganism does not have an effect on the overall supply of animal products. The reason that global meat consumption has risen is largely because of the growth of the middle classes in India and China. If there were also greater demand for animal products in the US than there otherwise would have been but for those adopting veggie/vegan diets then more animals would be reared and slaughtered to meet that demand in addition to the demand elsewhere. Not buying animal products does have a causal impact on supply chains.