Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[buscador]

Unbelievably, my rearranged assessment, scheduled for this afternoon has just been cancelled because three of their "medical assessors" have phoned in sick.

Glad I hadn't managed to get dressed yet. buscadora is once again in a state of fury and it will cost me a small fortune in gin.

They have just tried to suggest a new appointment on a Saturday. buscadora suggested that they would not look on it so favourably if I had been unable to attend. The person on the phone replied, "No comment."

And so we sit and wait for a third attempt at an appointment. What a bloody farce.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Unbelievably, my rearranged assessment, scheduled for this afternoon has just been cancelled because three of their "medical assessors" have phoned in sick.

Glad I hadn't managed to get dressed yet. buscadora is once again in a state of fury and it will cost me a small fortune in gin.

They have just tried to suggest a new appointment on a Saturday. buscadora suggested that they would not look on it so favourably if I had been unable to attend. The person on the phone replied, "No comment."

And so we sit and wait for a third attempt at an appointment. What a bloody farce.

cheeky feckers

 

[Greebo]

Unbelievably, my rearranged assessment, scheduled for this afternoon has just been cancelled because three of their "medical assessors" have phoned in sick.

<snip>And so we sit and wait for a third attempt at an appointment. What a bloody farce.

Outrageously unprofessional.

cheeky feckers

Word.

 

[geminisnake]

so it's ok for them to jerk you around but not vice versa?? x infinity

 

[equationgirl]

Unbelievably, my rearranged assessment, scheduled for this afternoon has just been cancelled because three of their "medical assessors" have phoned in sick.

Glad I hadn't managed to get dressed yet. buscadora is once again in a state of fury and it will cost me a small fortune in gin.

They have just tried to suggest a new appointment on a Saturday. buscadora suggested that they would not look on it so favourably if I had been unable to attend. The person on the phone replied, "No comment."

And so we sit and wait for a third attempt at an appointment. What a bloody farce.

Send them an invoice for the gin - and her time off work.

You're right, it is a bloody farce.

 

[Awesome Wells]

I'm looking through the physical descriptors and there is nothing that covers sight. The closest is "6. Making self understood through speaking, writing, typing, or other means which are normally or could reasonably be used, unaided by another person." But that's no good. My eyes get very tired, very easily. I'd struggle working on a PC for instance (not that PC'sa are the only issue). Nothing covers this. During the WCA they just whipped out a leaflet and asked if I could read a couple of sentences. As if that proves anything.

 

[equationgirl]

In all seriousness document how much their cock-ups and general incompetence are costing you as a household.

 

[equationgirl]

I'm looking through the physical descriptors and there is nothing that covers sight. The closest is "6. Making self understood through speaking, writing, typing, or other means which are normally or could reasonably be used, unaided by another person." But that's no good. My eyes get very tired, very easily. I'd struggle working on a PC for instance (not that PC'sa are the only issue). Nothing covers this. During the WCA they just whipped out a leaflet and asked if I could read a couple of sentences. As if that proves anything.

I suspect that's deliberate. Advice that has been given on here before is don't be constrained by the descriptors. Add additional information at the rear of the form using extra sheets of paper with your name and NI number written at the top of each one (both sides). Vision problems will clearly affect all aspects of your life so spell it out to the decision maker what this means. For example, you mention working on a PC, but in an office that would also mean not being able to see exit signs in the event of a fire, or the top of a staircase, or a safe place to cross the road, or being able to read instructions of all kinds.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

During the WCA they just whipped out a leaflet and asked if I could read a couple of sentences. As if that proves anything.

Proves about as much as being able to pick up a coin from the floor or an empty cardboard box

 

[Frances Lengel]

I'm looking through the physical descriptors and there is nothing that covers sight. The closest is "6. Making self understood through speaking, writing, typing, or other means which are normally or could reasonably be used, unaided by another person." But that's no good. My eyes get very tired, very easily. I'd struggle working on a PC for instance (not that PC'sa are the only issue). Nothing covers this. During the WCA they just whipped out a leaflet and asked if I could read a couple of sentences. As if that proves anything.

Would your conscience prevent you from saying "No, I can't read that?"

Not that you should have to do such things & don't take this as me advising you to lie.

 

[Greebo]

Would your conscience prevent you from saying "No, I can't read that?"<snip>

If you can only do so with difficulty, the official answer should be "no" or "not unless/without... [mention required help or equipment here, also whether it takes you longer than if you weren't visually impaired etc, and whether it would have any effect on other things which you might need to do on the same day]".

 

[Awesome Wells]

Would your conscience prevent you from saying "No, I can't read that?"

Not that you should have to do such things & don't take this as me advising you to lie.

I could read them. That isn't the point. Noone is going to find a job reading a couple of sentences on a page once a day. It's disingenuous.

 

[equationgirl]

I could read them. That isn't the point. Noone is going to find a job reading a couple of sentences on a page once a day. It's disingenuous.

The whole of the assessment is disingenuous. We know the whole system is farcical, unfortunately, claimants have to go through it.

 

[Awesome Wells]

The whole of the assessment is disingenuous. We know the whole system is farcical, unfortunately, claimants have to go through it.

Indeed. I knew what it was like going in.

Completely useless for conditions like ADD/aspergers etc

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Indeed. I knew what it was like going in.

Completely useless for conditions like ADD/aspergers etc

and memory problems

 

[equationgirl]

And traumatic brain injury, mental health problems, neurological problems, complex health conditions especially two or more together in a patient, basically any chronic health condition where stability rather than full recovery is the most likely outcome.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm looking through the physical descriptors and there is nothing that covers sight. The closest is "6. Making self understood through speaking, writing, typing, or other means which are normally or could reasonably be used, unaided by another person." But that's no good. My eyes get very tired, very easily. I'd struggle working on a PC for instance (not that PC'sa are the only issue). Nothing covers this. During the WCA they just whipped out a leaflet and asked if I could read a couple of sentences. As if that proves anything.

It's historically been ridiculously-hard for people with sight problems to get Incapacity Benefit (now ESA) and Disability Living Allowance, because it's one of the "impairment" issues for which the most "adjustments" have been made, which totally misses the fact that it's not the social impact of visual impairment that's at issue, it's your ability as an individual to cope with it, and the effects it has on your ability to "function normally" in an ongoing manner.
As for the whipping out of a leaflet (or getting someone with a cooordination and/or weakness issue to pick up a coin, once!), of course it doesn't prove anything, except that you can accomplish the task once. As the assessment is supposedly a "Work Capability Assessment", it should guage what you could/can manage over the span of a working day, but it doesn't, it just makes crude and inaccurate guesses based on the prejudices of the examiner.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Absolutely.

The whole WCA thing is so laughable that, were it not for people dying and being left to starve by a political system and a government (and an opposition, thanks to their collusion with the retrospective workfare legislation) that simply doesn't care, it would be hilarious.

It isnt' remotely a medical test. At all.

I'm currently trying to get a diagnosis for ADD/aspergers/whatever neurodiverse bollocks i use as my excuse for being a scrounger. I dread to think how the appeal tribunal will look on this. GP's aren't much help since the prevailing wisdom is 'arbeit macht frei' and work cures all ills.

 

[equationgirl]

Absolutely.

The whole WCA thing is so laughable that, were it not for people dying and being left to starve by a political system and a government (and an opposition, thanks to their collusion with the retrospective workfare legislation) that simply doesn't care, it would be hilarious.

It isnt' remotely a medical test. At all.

I'm currently trying to get a diagnosis for ADD/aspergers/whatever neurodiverse bollocks i use as my excuse for being a scrounger. I dread to think how the appeal tribunal will look on this. GP's aren't much help since the prevailing wisdom is 'arbeit macht frei' and work cures all ills.

I'm sure you think you're being ironic but the sentence in bold makes it sounds like you are actually faking being ill and I'm sure you're not.

And you are stating exactly what has been said on this thread for a couple of years now

I hope you get your diagnosis soon.

 

[Awesome Wells]

It's black humour.

In the eyes of this government we're all and only scroungers.

At this point there isn't anything new that can be said on the subject, though I wonder how many people realise just what ESA is meant to be. Not what IDS tells us it is.

 

[chainsawjob]

Info on what's supposed to be happening with regards to recording medicals, don't think this has been posted before, couldn't find it by searching.

Has the DWP let you know that you can ask for your ESA Atos face-to-face assessment to be recorded?

Posted on August 6, 2013
Last month (12 June), Mark Hoban said this during a debate on people’s right to ask for a recording of their employment and support allowance face-to-face assessments:

“The Department and Atos are in the process of amending written communications to claimants by updating the WCA AL1C form. The document is sent to claimants when they need to arrange a face-to-face assessment and will provide more information on how to arrange an audio-recorded assessment. We expect the revised form to be sent out to claimants by the end of next month, once the necessary changes have been made and the form has been cleared for use.”​

In other words – the DWP was finally going to change the documents it sends to ESA claimants to let them know that they can ask to have their Atos face-to-face assessments recorded. It’s vital that people know they have that right, because with a recording, they are able to demonstrate beyond doubt what was said and what happened at their assessments.
By “the end of next month,” Hoban surely meant the end of July – and we’ve just gone past that deadline.
I along with Kate Belgrave, DPAC, Black Triangle, False Economy and Public Interest Lawyers (who, with disabled man Patrick Lynch, took a legal action against the DWP last year on people’s right to record their assessments are publishing this blog and asking you to reblog and share it to find out if the DWP has changed the documents it sends out to ESA claimants and if people have noted that.

from http://jaynelinney.wordpress.com/20...-atos-face-to-face-assessment-to-be-recorded/

 

[ViolentPanda]

Absolutely.

The whole WCA thing is so laughable that, were it not for people dying and being left to starve by a political system and a government (and an opposition, thanks to their collusion with the retrospective workfare legislation) that simply doesn't care, it would be hilarious.

It isnt' remotely a medical test. At all.

I'm currently trying to get a diagnosis for ADD/aspergers/whatever neurodiverse bollocks i use as my excuse for being a scrounger. I dread to think how the appeal tribunal will look on this. GP's aren't much help since the prevailing wisdom is 'arbeit macht frei' and work cures all ills.

Actually, GPs are (as a profession) strongly against the current ESA regime. The BMA has taken votes 2 years in a row censuring it (basically, a doctor doing ESA assessments won't be a BMA member).
Of course, that doesn't stop individual GPs acting like the guardians of the public urse, but what also doesn't help is that financial constraints have made primary care much more needs-led than it was before, so getting a referral to a specialist is no longer a matter of just asking your GP/making a convincing case. Now your request may get passed up the management chain for scrutiny and approval.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Unbelievably, my rearranged assessment, scheduled for this afternoon has just been cancelled because three of their "medical assessors" have phoned in sick.

I don't know your circumstances at all, but may be worth repeating this (I think I've said it before on this thread, but at 132 pages it may get overlooked)

one of the WCA questions that appears at the time to be 'polite conversation' asks how you'd have reacted if the appointment had been cancelled at short notice. They expect people to be British and polite about it.

However, IF it would have caused significant distress (I'm thinking mental health here which may or may not be appropriate to you) then it's right to say so.

Absolutely nothing asked at the WCA is 'polite conversation'...

buscadora suggested that they would not look on it so favourably if I had been unable to attend. The person on the phone replied, "No comment."

if you are too ill to attend an assessment, then if you don't make contact then your claim will get rejected. You need to make contact with them on the day, and will need to supply a doctor's note.

Taking the word of (someone who's already ill) that they were too ill to attend isn't done...

 

[purenarcotic]

Not sure if this is really the right thread, but it is related and I thought it was interesting: http://www.communitycare.co.uk/arti...s-personal-budgets-and-individual-budgets.htm

This is both a guide to personal budgets and direct payments and also outlines what the latest research has to say on both. It also outlines what you should expect from your social worker if you have the option to go down this route.

 

[buscador]

I don't know your circumstances at all, but may be worth repeating this (I think I've said it before on this thread, but at 132 pages it may get overlooked)

one of the WCA questions that appears at the time to be 'polite conversation' asks how you'd have reacted if the appointment had been cancelled at short notice. They expect people to be British and polite about it.

However, IF it would have caused significant distress (I'm thinking mental health here which may or may not be appropriate to you) then it's right to say so.

Absolutely nothing asked at the WCA is 'polite conversation'...



if you are too ill to attend an assessment, then if you don't make contact then your claim will get rejected. You need to make contact with them on the day, and will need to supply a doctor's note.

Taking the word of (someone who's already ill) that they were too ill to attend isn't done...

Thanks for that. If they ever manage to actually keep an appointment they have made I have no doubt that any natural inclination to be polite will be severely compromised. I'm not very good with any type of change and this cancelling at the last minute lark is pissing me off a lot. Curiously, I felt strangely calm yesterday morning - almost as if I knew that they were going to phone up and cancel it again. It was most odd. I don't and won't use the telephone so poor old long-suffering buscadora has to deal with them. Fortunately, she has an excellent telephone manner and can pronounce "unhappy", "unacceptable" and "complaint" very clearly and forcefully.

 

[audiotech]

Threatening to forcibly: 'sue the arse off them' should be used more often IMO.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Actually, GPs are (as a profession) strongly against the current ESA regime. The BMA has taken votes 2 years in a row censuring it (basically, a doctor doing ESA assessments won't be a BMA member).
Of course, that doesn't stop individual GPs acting like the guardians of the public urse, but what also doesn't help is that financial constraints have made primary care much more needs-led than it was before, so getting a referral to a specialist is no longer a matter of just asking your GP/making a convincing case. Now your request may get passed up the management chain for scrutiny and approval.

Yes I know. But I think the 'arbeit macht frei' attitude is more prevalent. Just read what Dr Phil Peverley had to say the other day. It's disgraceful. The ignorance regarding invisible conditions, een if they aren't what might be regarded as illnesses in the traditional sense, is ubiqutous.

Perhaps we should forget our troubles and party like it's 1949, just like Channel 4.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Info on what's supposed to be happening with regards to recording medicals, don't think this has been posted before, couldn't find it by searching.



from http://jaynelinney.wordpress.com/20...-atos-face-to-face-assessment-to-be-recorded/

I'm just surprised Hoban took part in a debate. Last I heard McVey was filibustering on his behalf to make excuses for his utter disregard of Spartacus.

I'm sure I'm not the first to say this, but I like to say this whenever I get the chance: Hoban is the smuggest fucking cunt on the planet. Hardly surprising having sold his taxpayer funded secondhome for £155k, paying only 11k to the treasury leaving him £1 richer for every person Gideon declared would be made redundant going forward in the public sector in his autumn statement. If ever a politician needed a smacking it's Hoban.

 

[Frumious B.]

I'm helping a mentally ill chap with his ESA tribunal, which is in five weeks. I'm trying to get social services to help, and they may attend. They haven't met him yet so I doubt they'll have time to learn enough about him to speak for him or supply evidence. There's a limit to what I can do because my ME keeps flaring up, and the guy is 'challenging' as they say in the trade. Which causes me stress and aggravates the ME. Does benefitsandwork have a guide for tribunals? If so, could somebody email it to me? My subscription has expired and I don't want to renew.

 

[tufty79]

hand delivered my esa1 form on Monday to the job centre, to be internally couriered to the benefit delivery centre on Tuesday.
no sign of it having been received yet. got a handwritten receipt, but apparently it should've also been 'noted on the system'. it wasn't.