Atos Medicals - Questions, Answers and Support

[ViolentPanda]

Disabled man turned away from his incapacity medical assessment by Atos because a decision was made that his wheelchair was a "health and safety risk". So, no disability access at a medical centre that makes assessments on people who are disabled. Atos Healthcare are beginning to look like they couldn't run a whelk stall.

Source.

So, another inaccessibility issue to add to the others (assessment offices on upper floors of buildings without lifts being the most prevalent issue).

 

[equationgirl]

They really are incapable of handling the assessments.

 

[panpete]

I was just with a friend I havent seen for a year as they live in the midlands and me south west and they failed their ESA so they went to apply for JSA and were told they were too unwell to jobseek and claim JSA.
So, my friend has had absolutely no income for three months and has had to rely on their friends who live near them.

 

[panpete]

If you're recording it for your own use you don't need to tell them.

If you get hassle from them you can always tell them you're recording it at the end and then listen to them shitting themselves.


panpete you can get a telephone adapter for about £10 from Maplin that plugs into your phone line and can be plugged into your dictaphone.

Hi

So, if I take in a dictaphone, and record the assessment, and tell them AT THE END of the assessment that I recorded it, what can they do?
Also, would I need to hide my dictaphone in my bag?

 

[existentialist]

Hi

So, if I take in a dictaphone, and record the assessment, and tell them AT THE END of the assessment that I recorded it, what can they do?
Also, would I need to hide my dictaphone in my bag?

I think people are talking about telling people you're recording PHONE CALLS.

If you record the assessment, you're better off not telling them at all - there's no advantage to be gained. If you tell them you're recording before, they're likely just to call the assessment off, and why bother telling them you recorded it afterwards? Far better to quietly go home, write the recording up as notes, and use them - as you are entitled to - as evidence in your appeal.

 

[panpete]

I think people are talking about telling people you're recording PHONE CALLS.

If you record the assessment, you're better off not telling them at all - there's no advantage to be gained. If you tell them you're recording before, they're likely just to call the assessment off, and why bother telling them you recorded it afterwards? Far better to quietly go home, write the recording up as notes, and use them - as you are entitled to - as evidence in your appeal.

Thanks but I want to avoid an appeal, as you no longer get paid while waiting for the appeal, as the decision maker looks at the appeal papers before deciding if it's worth appealing against.
There is no time limit for the decision maker so this could take ages and there will be a gap in paymnet.

Also, I am requesting a recording on my form, and I am going to ask someone also to phone them and ask if my interview can be recorded. I am concerned that they may fail to provide recording equipment, that is why I would be bringing a dictaphone, and if they try to terminate the assessment, I would just say "I have a copy of my form and it clearly states that I would like my interview recorded, as you have failed to do that, i brought my own dictaphone in.

What do you think?

Also see a copy of Wouldbe's post below

 

[existentialist]

Thanks but I want to avoid an appeal, as you no longer get paid while waiting for the appeal, as the decision maker looks at the appeal papers before deciding if it's worth appealing against.
There is no time limit for the decision maker so this could take ages and there will be a gap in paymnet.

Also, I am requesting a recording on my form, and I am going to ask someone also to phone them and ask if my interview can be recorded. I am concerned that they may fail to provide recording equipment, that is why I would be bringing a dictaphone, and if they try to terminate the assessment, I would just say "I have a copy of my form and it clearly states that I would like my interview recorded, as you have failed to do that, i brought my own dictaphone in.

What do you think?

Also see a copy of Wouldbe's post below

*despair* This thread is full of examples of what can happen if you try to record sessions. And you recording your own session will make no difference to how it is conducted, for all the reasons that have been gone into already.

A lot of people have gone to a lot of trouble to help you understand what the best path to take is: why not, instead of coming up with "new" ideas whose manifest drawbacks are a matter of record, just take the excellent advice you've been given?

It may not feel like it to you, but your situation isn't fundamentally that different to those of the majority of people enduring ATOS assessment.

 

[Jackobi]

Thanks but I want to avoid an appeal, as you no longer get paid while waiting for the appeal, as the decision maker looks at the appeal papers before deciding if it's worth appealing against.

Yep, there were changes introduced in Section 102 Schedule 11 of the Welfare Reform Act, namely the 'Power to require consideration of revision before appeal'.

Which effectively means there is no longer an immediate right of appeal against a benefit claim award before a claim has been considered for revision. During the consideration period, there is no intermediate payment of benefit, as is the case during an appeal, which is the appeal rate.

To clarify, there is no payment during the consideration period, but there is when awaiting an appeal. As far as I know, the mandatory consideration of revision before appeal was introduced in April 2013 for PIP and UC claimants, but will not apply to other benefit claims until October 2013. Even if you do have to appeal, you should still qualify for the appeal rate if it is before October.

 

[panpete]

*despair* This thread is full of examples of what can happen if you try to record sessions. And you recording your own session will make no difference to how it is conducted, for all the reasons that have been gone into already.

A lot of people have gone to a lot of trouble to help you understand what the best path to take is: why not, instead of coming up with "new" ideas whose manifest drawbacks are a matter of record, just take the excellent advice you've been given?

It may not feel like it to you, but your situation isn't fundamentally that different to those of the majority of people enduring ATOS assessment.

Hi, sorry, this is a mega-long thread, and I have only read the bits that are relevant to me, so have missed most of the other info on recording.

I am a bit confused. What have I said to suggest that my ESA process will be different to anyone elses on here?

 

[panpete]

Yep, there were changes introduced in Section 102 Schedule 11 of the Welfare Reform Act, namely the 'Power to require consideration of revision before appeal'.

Which effectively means there is no longer an immediate right of appeal against a benefit claim award before a claim has been considered for revision. During the consideration period, there is no intermediate payment of benefit, as is the case during an appeal, which is the appeal rate.

To clarify, there is no payment during the consideration period, but there is when awaiting an appeal. As far as I know, the mandatory consideration of revision before appeal was introduced in April 2013 for PIP and UC claimants, but will not apply to other benefit claims until October 2013. Even if you do have to appeal, you should still qualify for the appeal rate if it is before October.

Hi, does this mean that if I appeal, I will still probably get paid, given that my Atos assessment will no doubt be before October 2013?
If so, many thanks, this has made my day.

 

[Jackobi]

Hi, does this mean that if I appeal, I will still probably get paid, given that my Atos assessment will no doubt be before October 2013?
If so, many thanks, this has made my day.

EDIT panpete : I've realised it is your assessment before October and not an appeal, so you will possibly miss any changes. I'm not so certain about what would happen in a case where the claim date and appeal date fall either side of the changes. It's possible that because the appeal is considered from the date of the claim, any legislative changes during that time are not applicable.

"DWP will reconsider all decisions before an appeal. This change means that if someone disputes a decision, they will need to ask DWP to reconsider the decision before they can appeal to HMCTS. This is known as “mandatory reconsideration”."

"When will these changes be introduced?
DWP introduced all three changes for Personal Independence Payment and Universal Credit in April 2013. For all other DWP benefits and child maintenance cases, mandatory reconsideration, direct lodgement and time limits will be introduced towards the end of October 2013, and DWP will begin to report against the time limits from October 2014."

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/appls-process-changesl/

 

[existentialist]

Hi, sorry, this is a mega-long thread, and I have only read the bits that are relevant to me, so have missed most of the other info on recording.

Yes, it is a long thread, but these issues about recording have come up often enough. I recommend you familiarise yourself with the "Search" function. Even so, quite a few people - including me - have explained in some detail, in direct response to your queries, how you might best go about the whole recording-assessment thing, so it does feel a little galling when you then barrel up and go "Hey, I know, I'll just do it in this $TotallyDifferentWayToWhatHasBeenAdvised, that should be brilliant, wodjer think?"

I am a bit confused. What have I said to suggest that my ESA process will be different to anyone elses on here?

Just the implication that, somehow, all of the advice that has been given to all of the other people in the same situation to you is somehow not applicable to you, but I think you've covered that adequately in your comment about not actually having read the whole thread.

 

[yardbird]

Hi, sorry, this is a mega-long thread, and I have only read the bits that are relevant to me, so have missed most of the other info on recording.

I am a bit confused. What have I said to suggest that my ESA process will be different to anyone elses on here?

118 pages.
Take some time with a notepad and do read the thread.
The info and advice here will pre-arm you and my god you will need it - READ

 

[yardbird]

118 pages.
Take some time with a notepad and do read the thread.
The info and advice here will pre-arm you and my god you will need it - READ

This is important.

 

[panpete]

EDIT panpete : I've realised it is your assessment before October and not an appeal, so you will possibly miss any changes. I'm not so certain about what would happen in a case where the claim date and appeal date fall either side of the changes. It's possible that because the appeal is considered from the date of the claim, any legislative changes during that time are not applicable.

"DWP will reconsider all decisions before an appeal. This change means that if someone disputes a decision, they will need to ask DWP to reconsider the decision before they can appeal to HMCTS. This is known as “mandatory reconsideration”."

"When will these changes be introduced?
DWP introduced all three changes for Personal Independence Payment and Universal Credit in April 2013. For all other DWP benefits and child maintenance cases, mandatory reconsideration, direct lodgement and time limits will be introduced towards the end of October 2013, and DWP will begin to report against the time limits from October 2014."

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/adviser/updates/appls-process-changesl/

Thanks, that's brilliant and takes a bit of a weight off my mind, as my assessment is bound to be in July or August and if I don't get the result I want, i will still get ESA, albeit at a lower rate, much better than nothing.

Also, I did mention that I will ask someone to call Atos more than once to ask for my interview to be recorded, as per the advice on here.

woops edited wrong post.

 

[panpete]

Yes, it is a long thread, but these issues about recording have come up often enough. I recommend you familiarise yourself with the "Search" function. Even so, quite a few people - including me - have explained in some detail, in direct response to your queries, how you might best go about the whole recording-assessment thing, so it does feel a little galling when you then barrel up and go "Hey, I know, I'll just do it in this $TotallyDifferentWayToWhatHasBeenAdvised, that should be brilliant, wodjer think?"


Just the implication that, somehow, all of the advice that has been given to all of the other people in the same situation to you is somehow not applicable to you, but I think you've covered that adequately in your comment about not actually having read the whole thread.

OK I will do a search, thanks.

EDIT
I didn't mean to annoy you. I was just really anxious about the process, especially because I believed at the time that if I didn't get the result I wanted, I would not be paid, due to changes in the appeal process.
I have however, just found out, ( see my post below) that the change in apapeal for ESA will not happen until october, so that has reduced my anxiety to a manageable level.

 

[panpete]

This is important.

That's a bit of a tall order for somene with depression and very little energy, but I will have a good go.

 

[yardbird]

That's a bit of a tall order for somene with depression and very little energy, but I will have a good go.

Give it a go -
I can relate to depression and very little energy.

You may find answers to things that really help.

 

[Celt]

That's a bit of a tall order for somene with depression and very little energy, but I will have a good go.

I dentify with this also, but getting a handle on the thing that causes you anxiety, having an informed opinion, informed by the path that other people have trodden (this thread) will make you stronger. IMHO

 

[equationgirl]

panpete I cannot reply to your PM as you must have your settings set to 'not able to receive PMs'.

The LIMA software user has boxes where they can submit additional information gained during the assessment, perhaps an answer the claimant gives to that question. But when the automated report is generated, it does not include the information in the boxes. You must still give as much information as possible in the form.

 

[Greebo]

I dentify with this also, but getting a handle on the thing that causes you anxiety, having an informed opinion, informed by the path that other people have trodden (this thread) will make you stronger. IMHO

Exactly - knowledge is power.

 

[panpete]

panpete I cannot reply to your PM as you must have your settings set to 'not able to receive PMs'.

The LIMA software user has boxes where they can submit additional information gained during the assessment, perhaps an answer the claimant gives to that question. But when the automated report is generated, it does not include the information in the boxes. You must still give as much information as possible in the form.

Hi
Thanks
I've been sending and receiving messages today.
I had a look at how to check if settings are set to receive messages, but am unable to find it. Please could you tell me how to go about locating the setting so I can check?

 

[panpete]

I dentify with this also, but getting a handle on the thing that causes you anxiety, having an informed opinion, informed by the path that other people have trodden (this thread) will make you stronger. IMHO

Hi

I've started reading the thread and have read ten pages. I am starting to lose focus and not take it all in, so I think I will stop there for now. Hope it doesn't take me ten or more days to read it.

 

[equationgirl]

Hi
Thanks
I've been sending and receiving messages today.
I had a look at how to check if settings are set to receive messages, but am unable to find it. Please could you tell me how to go about locating the setting so I can check?

I don't know, try the feedback forum and ask the question there?.

 

[panpete]

Intriguing.

Unable to access cos its private.

 

[panpete]

I did a bit of research on the questionnaire and the ATOS software being used during these assessments back in January to see if it would help anybody going through this on urban. Here is a post I made earlier on the thread:

'The software appears to be a closely guarded secret of the DWP (even though the taxpayer will have paid many millions towards it, it's owned by Atos). Basically the links - including the manual - show the reasons why everyone is getting really wrong reports.

It's the way the software works - it 'simplifies' the assessment by guiding the assessor through drop-down menu choices. If additional information is provided in text boxes, the software disregards it. At the end of the assessment, a report is generated. The software uses to drop down menu choices to generate simple sentences which can then supposedly be used to make an informed decision about benefits.

The problem is, a lot of report generated doesn't make any sense. For example, claimants have produced reports with sentences like 'the claimant has a mild upper limb amputation, but has seen a specialist about this condition' or 'the claimant can walk for 1 minute'.

I thought the links might provide ways to fight the DWP at appeal stage. I hope they are useful.'

So, the software basically stacks the points system against everyone.

There's a lot more about this on a website called 'The abc of ESA', I posted about this site earlier as well: 'On the ABC of ESA website they discuss why it is so hard to get a reasonable assessment. There's been a lot of changes to the scoring used compared to the previous system, and in my opinion it's so heavily weighted towards passing people fit for work no matter what that is has become virtually useless. It may be worth bearing this in mind when completing the form.

Here's the ABC of ESA site: http://www.abcofesa.co.uk/board/index.php

Best of luck.'

What's happened to the abc of ESA site?

 

[panpete]

Help.

I've still got loads of additional info to put on my form, and I have to read this thread.
I get tired really easily and am worried I am not going to get it all done by sending off time on Tuesday, cos four weeks has not been enough time.

*upto page 11 on thread*

 

[panpete]

Please can someone help me navigate the benefitsandwork site.
I keep going round in circles, and am looking for the members ESA guide to mental health filling form, as I have last years and things have changed since then.
I just joined as a member and activated my email and it wont let me access he guide, only the non members guide.
That site is a fucking nightmare to navigate,nearly as bad as the esa form.

 

[panpete]

Sorry, I can't do this on my own. Too much to do, and i am mentally exhausted and frightened its gonna make me lose my temper and bang my head againt the wall. I have to read this whole thread, only read 11 pages AND complete my form by Tuesday and it feels like its just not gonna happen cos i wanna go back to bed.

I've found the benefitsandwork booklet for mentally ill people but i don't understand it and have loads of questions and nobody to check what i put once its complete-already been to CAB.

 

[equationgirl]

What's happened to the abc of ESA site?

Hmmmm, it seems to have gone offline. I'll see if I can find out why.

panpete it got moved:

http://thefullfacts.com/esa/forum/