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Athens Greece: Cops murder a 16 year old

Insults ? You find it insulting calling you a stalinist ?

I have already noted in this very thread that KKE was the one that was being sarcastic about the gatherings in parliament square, but now it tries to be the first and only party that takes over the square... Why this change of tactics ?

It makes you feel great when you use ironic comments about other movements demos I see. Yes yesterdays demo was pretty small as it was not announced at all and you know that, it was mainly spontaneous. In contrast a gathering at Klathmonos square has been called for today and a demo towards the parliament, and that is known since the very first day that the confidence vote was announced. KKE announced for a gathering at parliament square knowing that there is a demo that will lead to there.

Will you and your friends try to block the demo to reach the parliament square for one more time ?
 
that is known since the very first day that the confidence vote was announced. KKE announced for a gathering at parliament square knowing that there is a demo that will lead to there.

You are so full of lies! The no-confidence vote was announced on Tuesday (1/11) and that same day KKE announced its intention to hold a political demonstration in Syntagma square on Friday with a statement of its CC (you can see the full content of its statement of 1/11 on KKE's English site). Here is the front page of KKE's newspaper "Rizospastis" of Wednesday (printed on the evening of Tuesday) announcing the rally:

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The reformist unions (ADEDY) and their "left" appendages did not meet to discuss the issue of demonstrations until Wednesday. In fact in that meeting there was a "split" of the "holy alliance": the ADEDY leadership decided to hold a demo on Thursday, while the "left" appendages (in a clear attempt at provoking KKE) decided to call for a demo on Friday at about the same time that KKE had already announced its rally.

Here is a first photo of KKE's rally last night:

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Would you please show us your "massive" demonstration of last night that had been "announced" (since this was apparently the reason for the failure of your Thursday demo)? Did you manage to storm the parliament building and take over power? I am "afraid" we did not see you last night in Syntagma square.
 
It was not "my demonstration" and I was not there actually. Anarchists had not called for a demo yesterday correctly as we do not believe that yesterday it was a crucial day for anything. It was a parliamentary vote of confidence that really has nothing to do with us, because we oppose to the whole system anyway. There is no difference if the government is PASOK or Nea Dimokratia or a coalition of a number of parties as it seems that it will happen anyway. We do not care about the mechanisms of the parliamentary political parties and the system, only about the end result that is a clear attack against the working class as I have already mentioned on earlier posts in this thread. It makes sense to KKE to be there and demonstrate because you are a parliamentary party, therefore you take part in that system.

If there will be a demo organized when they vote for the 26th of October agreement, there will be a point of course of us to be there. But not yesterday.

On Thursday I was on that small demo although anarchist movements had not called for anything, because I felt that people needed to demonstrate against what was happening that day, with Merkel and Sarkozi basically dictating to Greece what to do and the greek political parties taking part to a big theatrical act, during the day there seemed to be no government and later everybody agreed to what EU is dictating us. If there should be massive demos during the last 2 days I believe that the correct day should be Thursday and not Friday, after Thursday what happened yesterday is rather irrelevant. They voted for "confidence" for a government that basically it does not exist and from today a new government will be in power that nobody has elected. What happened yesterday is nearly similar to a dictatorship and KKE makes this whole ridiculous procedure looking normal exactly because you take part in it voting no matter if you voted NO.
 
If you "do not care about the mechanisms of the parliamentary political parties and the system", why then do you have to demonstrate IN FRONT of the parliament building and not in some other location in Athens?

KKE, as any revolutionary Leninist party should do, participates in the bourgeois parliament to unmask it in front of the people. Being in the same room with a bourgeois deputy does not poison a revolutionary's mind (if he has a clear strategic line), nor does it entail an acceptance of the parliamentary insitutions as the paradigm of democracy. The attitude of non-participation, in the name of revolutionary purity, is a sure sign of an "infantile disorder".

By the way, you did not say anything about your false insinuations that KKE announced its rally after the announcement of another demonstration in the square. What do you have to say about the facts of the matter?
 
Hey Papa G what is the modern KKE take on what happened at Yalta. Uncle Joe seems to have really sold Ellas down the river.
 
Hey Papa G what is the modern KKE take on what happened at Yalta. Uncle Joe seems to have really sold Ellas down the river.

Historiographic attempts to present the Conference of Yalta as the origin of the "partition of Europe" in "spheres of influence" are widespread. This approach, shared by bourgeois and "left-wing" historians alike, has been used as an ideological weapon against communists and the Soviet Union, attempting to equate the USSR with the imperialist countries.

It is in this vein that there exists a persistent myth that the Conference of Yalta had a decisive impact on developments in Greece, that the "treasonous actions" of the Soviet Union in Yalta led to the defeat of the popular movement during the civil war. There are some points that should be made:

1. The Conference of Yalta recognized the correlation of forces that had been established in each individual country as of February 1945. In Greece there had already occured (in December 1944) an armed confrontation of the National Liberation Front Army (ELAS) with the British forces and their local collaborators. The defeat of the popular forces in December came about as a result of the fact that, although a revolutionary situation had developed in Greece during 1944, particularly after the withdrawal of the German forces in the autumn, KKE did not have the readiness to lead the class struggle to its logical end, the conquest of power.

2. All of the historians that point to Yalta as the decisive point fail to mention Roosevelt's and Churchill's meeting in Quebec in the summer of 1943, where it was decided that British forces would invade Greece after the withdrawal of the Germans. This is amply documented in Churchill's memoirs and in 1943 telegrams to his Foreign Minister Eden.

3. The major piece of "evidence" that is often given as proof of the "partition of Europe" is the infamous "small piece of paper" on which Churchill supposedly scribled perecentages of influence of the superpowers in the Balkans during his meeting with Stalin in Moscow in October 1944. Of course, the only reference for the existence of such a note can be found in the memoirs of Churchill himself. No such reference or evidence has been found in the published archives of Great Britain or the USSR. Moreover, the subjects discussed in Moscow were clearly defined: the opening of the new fronts in Western Europe, the recognition of the governments in Poland, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia (that had already been liberated). Greece was NOT on the agenda of the meeting - the issues relating to Greece had already been discussed in the Teheran Conference (where there is also no discussion about partition).

4. The "argument" is often made that the Red Army could have entered Greece in 1944 and put its weight behind the ELAS forces. This is really a non-argument. The Red Army had no reason to enter Greece, since, during the allied war efforts, Greece had been assigned to the responsibilities of the English command when it came to the pursuance of military operations agianst the Germans and in 1944 the war was still ongoing. If the USSR had entered Greece, it could have jeopardized the war effort and the speedier ending of the war, something that would have been detrimental to the popular movement worldwide.

The myths concerning the "treachery" of the USSR and Stalin towards the Greek popular movement and KKE are not limited to the war period, but extend into the 1946-1949 period and the heroic struggle of the Democratic Army of Greece (DSE) against the Anglo-Americans and their local stooges. There is, however, extensive evidence to support the fact that the Soviet Union (and Stalin personally), not only had agreed to the decisions of the KKE leadership regarding the onset of the new phase of the armed struggle, but provided significant material support to that struggle. Of course, that support had to be clandestine, due to the very volatile post-war climate. In any case, the USSR could not substitute the Greek popular forces, could not win the war for them.
 
Hello all. I have been away from the boards for a long time now, due to big personal problems. I am now unemployed, the company I was working for (a company that was selling fertilizers) has now closed, we are all fired and they own us 6 months of wages.

This country is going to a point of no return. The new austerity measures that will follow the PSI and the new agreement with the Troika, will completely kill us all. 22% cut of wages on private sector, more taxes on properties, possible increase of VAT on food and other essential items, cuts on pensions are only a few of the new austerity measures that they bring forward.

Strikes and demos have been happening during the last months and will continue. A demo took place yesterday, others are about to start today so I will leave from the pc now.

Just a photo from yesterday, so you can get the big picture. A riot policeman kicking an unconscious man.

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From fridays protests.
Solidarity with the greek people who are being royally fucked over by international finance.
How long can this go on before the government collapses?
 
I don't know how much more of this the Greek people can take.The election coming in April may see a massive change in voting patterns
 
How much more we can take? None. Even now the situation is unbearable. Also I do not believe that there will be elections in April, they will find new excuses to postpone them.

In the parliament they have started discussing about the new austerity measures. The parliamentary discussion will last JUST ONE DAY ! THE MOST CRUCIAL DISCUSSION EVER IN RECENT GREEK HISTORY THAT WILL AFFECT THE LIVES OF THE NEXT GENERATIONS WILL LAST JUST ONE DAY.

Demonstrations and gatherings outside the parliament square have been announced for today. Of course I will be there, I will try to update you within the day of any news and developments. About 1000 people are outside in the square as we speak, Amalias street in front of the parliament is blocked. Huge police presence, police has also blocked the tube stations in order to prevent a big gathering on the square. The police formation in front of the parliament is a double line this time.

Anyway I am off
 
Some very quick updates, more news later or tomorrow. Huge huge turn out of hundreds of thousands of people on the streets of Athens, very big police presence and brutality, the whole city center turned to a gas chamber because of the extensive use of chemicals by the police. Their idea was to keep the parliament square clear of demonstrators so when groups of people were approaching were sprayed with chemicals. Thousands of people got trapped in the streets of Athens as there were so many people that you could not move at all. Unfortunately a lot were injured because they fell down and were stepped by others who were trying to flee because the police was spraying with chemicals. More than 20 buildings are on fire, some are burned completely, a very big number of banks and shops are destroyed and looted, the jewelry shops on the central roads of Athens are also destroyed and looted. A couple of cinema buildings are on fire as well. It is impossible for me to describe you what happened exactly because there were riots and incidents happening in various locations of Athens and of course I could not be on different spots on the same time. I am gathering information from comrades and I will post later. I am now in Exarchia area, there are also riots happening here as we speak.
 
I was reading the Guardian's account of what happened Friday and there's an interesting (and possibly significant) statement by the biggest police union in Greece:

Guardian said:
Greece's largest police union has threatened to issue arrest warrants for officials from the country's European Union and International Monetary Fund lenders for demanding deeply unpopular austerity measures.
That's according to Reuters, which says it has obtained a letter from the Federation of Greek Police. In it, the police accuse Troika officials of:

"...blackmail, covertly abolishing or eroding democracy and national sovereignty.
Since you are continuing this destructive policy, we warn you that you cannot make us fight against our brothers."​
One target of the warrants would be the IMF's top official for Greece, Poul Thomsen.
Reuters explains:

The threat is largely symbolic since legal experts say a judge must first authorize such warrants, but it shows the depth of anger against foreign lenders who have demanded drastic wage and pension cuts in exchange for funds to keep Greece afloat.​
 
I was reading the Guardian's account of what happened Friday and there's an interesting (and possibly significant) statement by the biggest police union in Greece:

I guess its only token in terms of the 'power' to enforce such an action is but it is significant, I guess, in simply showing the potential for the collapse of the apparatus they need to impose the austerity measures? (at least through the present "democratic" means)

At this moment its the way in which the mass movement develops that matters. All depends on the greek people.
 
Yeah, while they don't have the power to do anything legally, it at least shows that the police (or at least the police union) isn't "onside" with the austerity stuff, which has got to be a massive pain in the arse for the government.
 
if the police are broken from the state like that (or at least a significant proportion of them are so much that they have to issue statements like that) then the regime is fucked, whatever happens, if even the basis on which their power rests is turning against them.
 
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