Athens Greece: Cops murder a 16 year old

[Stella]

I'm not sure that after Dimitris' posts I can contribute much

to the very detailed, honest and accurate news reports you received so far about what's happening over here. Also I'm not sure I have much of a "right" to post since I've only posted years ago and only returned back from time to time to get informed on "all things about London", so if you feel i don't belong in this forum just ignore me and I'll get it... Also the first night I posted, my anger was out of control and i was extreme in the use of certain words and that is the main reason I want to post today to "apologize" about phrases such as "ashamed and disgusted to be greek" and so on. And the other reason was to express my thanks for your international solidarity about our current situation by what you did at the greek embassy and specifically to butchersapron for his post that invited you lovely Londoners and others at the Hyde Park assembly - I have to admit a huge smile warmed my heart when I saw from photos the greek flag down (on the net don't have a tv)also by your interest in this forum, it's good to know that there are people who care about what happened and show that with actions - unlike some of my fellow greeks, that seem to care more about the destruction of properties etc instead of the murder of a young and innocent boy.
I don't want to use too much of your time and space here ,since I don't feel I belong here either- the same way I didn't belong at the demonstration yesterday either but i had to be there-even at the margins- just with my presence, part of the response to the violent act such as the murder of a young boy, so i will just ask from only one person in this forum (derf) to show only the tiniest bit of respect to the young boy who only got buried today. I won't repeat what derf said , he/she knows.
That's it from me and thanks for your solidarity.

P.S. and with such beautiful poetic actions from all our young people the last few days I will say that there is no more disgust or shame left in me, about the "label" in my passport or the place i lay my hat at the moment, because we have plenty of poets of social action in Greece left.
love and peace to you all and thanks

 

[two sheds]

Nah Stella i for one have greatly appreciated your posts, too. Understood that you would be feeling emotional as it was happening.

 

[Stella]

I am still both emotional and angry now just in a different way and I'm glad you appreciated the video posts

 

[ddraig]

no way Stella, please don't feel like that at all!
your account is very very important however it comes out and believe me it is greatly valued and respected.

please please continue posting about what is going on and how it makes you feel in any way whatsoever, please.
it is amazing in itself that you and Dimitris are committed enough to take the time to post updates for us on here let alone give a shit and act in the first place.

i asked a 19 yr old today in work if they thought that would ever happen here and their reply was "no because we are sensible" i did explain a bit more about the background and they started looking into it themselves so will hopefully learn someting, someday soon.

keep posting, keep strong, keep safe

 

[Stella]

replying to ddraig

thank you but my information is quite limited (just the radio, my mac, my own two feet and ears oh, and my dislexic brain- tomorrow though might take some photos) as far as the latest news, and do not have inside information from the occupied universities like Dimitris obviously has.

Also my views tend to be tinted by the ideology of the "boring side", of the KKE -Communist Party of Greece-although as i realized yesterday and today not altogether, and also by my arty-f... inclination, but I will post some stuff:
one of the things that made me both angry and sad yesterday and today was the amount of rubbish I've heard about
the so called destruction of people's properties (compared to a person's death... no further comment necessary from me)
or of those beautiful, old and architecturally valuable buildings (bricks again compared to a human being...no comment)
or about how Che Guevara did not hide his face because he believed that people that were going to join the revolution wanted and needed to see and respect the face of the revolutionary they were to join , compared to our young people in scarfs, who at the risk of their own safety and actually lives(Dimitris mentioned before that again today-sorry yesterday- a policeman fired again against the young people in front of him and I don't care he fired in the air, the fact is he fired(!) -just like at Alexis case, and just hours after his funeral, I mean really!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) get out and show in actions of all kinds(and yes, I appreciate all of their actions because extreme actions are called for and are the only dignifying response to a brutal murder and the aftermath-they just walked away as if nothing had happened, and the nearby private(like most of those properties destroyed) clinic refused to accept him and so on.

Oh, and the sad thing was that comments like these were not made only by intellectually challenged greek fascists but also by communists, oh and so much more, at the risk of sounding emotional and sad... all these and even more pathetic remarks from communists that until yesterday i respected and valued their opinions... anyway this is boring party politics stuff but I just have had enough of it.
Thanks for inviting me to post my "stuff' as well and will try to add some more soon.

 

[Stella]

a greek site with videos and photos about the current situation (Zougla.gr)

http://www.zougla.gr/news.php?id=15945

 

[Stella]

another greek site with videos and photos

from a very brave young man that understand the essence of a dignifying response to the brutal murder of Alexis
http://giantakos.blogspot.com/ -For reasons I suspect but do not understand this link is no longer allowing access

he updates almost daily with photos and videos from the streets of Athens and from Indymedia Athens
for when it's down
http://athens.indymedia.org/?lang=el

 

[derf]

Yes I see your point of view. If the copper is guilty of murder he will get punished.

How about the bunch of fucker destroying the shops and so one. Not to mention burning the christmas tree. Do they deserve punishment or is that an acceptable reaction?

 

[frogwoman]

Yes I see your point of view. If the copper is guilty of murder he will get punished.

How about the bunch of fucker destroying the shops and so one. Not to mention burning the christmas tree. Do they deserve punishment or is that an acceptable reaction?

 

[Stella]

For Dimitris

Dimitri prosehe ton eauto sou kai simera opws kai tis proigoumenes meres, paidia san kai sena eiste to mellon mas!(just a take care of yourself note in our greekenglish, sorry about that if it's not allowed, it just didn't feel right to write it in English)

 

[Stella]

for derf

For the life of me, I don't know if you mean what you say for real!
Are you comparing the burning of a Xmas tree to the murder of another human being?
Are you greek by the way, you don't have to reply if you don't want to, just wondering...
and I have to go in a bit anyway to put a flower where your lovely tree was-just for you derf and the way you addressed Alexis on previous posts...
love and peace to you derf!
and respect and solidarity for everyone else.

 

[frogwoman]

yep, gotta say, there's a very unpleasant, licking the arse of the state type tone to most of derf's posts ...

 

[Stella]

oh well, see you around on this forum again and others maybe frogwoman soon
Respect

 

[peterkro]

Thank you Dimitris and Stella,stay safe.

 

[DotCommunist]

Yes I see your point of view. If the copper is guilty of murder he will get punished.

How about the bunch of fucker destroying the shops and so one. Not to mention burning the christmas tree. Do they deserve punishment or is that an acceptable reaction?

no derf, your child like simple view of the world just isn't fucking on for a grown man. Good does not always win, bad people do not always get punished and santa clause is not coming down your chimney.

 

[nursey]

oh well, see you around on this forum again and others maybe frogwoman soon
Respect

Respect and support. And thanks

 

[Dimitris]

Good morning from me.

Here you can see some videos and photos of the last days

http://athens.indymedia.org/front.php3?lang=el&article_id=938370

On one of the videos you see that the police has arrested one person and they hit him and on the same time they try to defend from the attacks of the public who want to free the demonstrator.

Now something else... Look at these photos

What we see here? What else... the police together with their friends, fascists, getting ready for action... Their friends being with all the appropriate accessories (full faces, wood sticks etc) ... Some of the faces of the fascists are quite familiar to us, because we have met on the streets many times before... this whole situation is hidden from the public, as the corporate media say nothing...

Something else as well... Yesterday police IN ALL GREECE, was going to the shop owners, schools, cafes etc and was spreading rumours that anarchists with buses are going to go to their town and trash the whole place etc. You could see nearly in all towns frightened shop owners closing down their stores or in some occassions being inside and arming themselves with whatever they got in order to defend their properties by the "vandals" .. Because this did not happen in just one town but all over Greece it is obvious that it is a central police tactic to terrorise the public and turn them against the revolted youth. The only ones that travelled from place to place with buses though, were their friends, the fascists, who had the right not only to beat but even to ARREST demonstrators, as it happened in Patras yesterday.

Today is going to be a very "interesting" day as it seems that we will have a mix of police and fascists (angry citizents as the media call them) on the street.

The demo is on about an hour from now, hopefully I will log in again this afternoon with news.

 

[goebfwai]

Greece is evidently going through a period of great discord and tumult.

It is shocking how quickly it has escalated out of control, and how this beautiful country - land of reason, debate and philosophy...land of Aristotle, Plato and the mighty Alexander the Great - has descended into scenes of destruction, wanton rampage and mindless rioting. Much of this simply ends up being attacks on the struggling working classes, and public property held in common ownership.

Perhaps one day soon, the people of Greece - government and citizenry alike - will lay down their swords of anger, fighting and destruction and start ploughing a path to the future, re-building and creating a new country and a new nation built on tolerance, peace and respect.

 

[camouflage]

I don't know about or agree with wanton destruction of property, but I suspect that any of that element's been overplayed in the media. I see a nation where the people remain passionate about their politics and able to remind the government who's boss. In a way, the Colonels taught them well. The BBC sees a population mobilized in demonstration with no doubt a number of issues they want addressed to have got them all het up in the first place, and dismisses them as a bunch of anarchists and troublemakers against which the police seem "unable to restor order."

Slow hand clap at the BBC.

 

[derf]

So the riots and so on are justified. Like fuck they are. Political bullshit by left wing fucking idiots.

The nasty police shooting in cold blood an innocent 15 year old.

Or maybe not

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7774634.stm

Court sources have told news agencies that tests show that the bullet which killed the teenager was a ricochet.

Looks like it was a warning shot as the police claimed.

4 days of riots, burning and looting. All that and it looks like the "pigs" rolleyes were telling the truth anyway. So much for assuming murder 'cos it was the nasty pigs wot did it.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[perplexis]

Warning shot shouldn't ricochet and kill someone. It's still murder.

 

[derf]

yep, gotta say, there's a very unpleasant, licking the arse of the state type tone to most of derf's posts ...

Oh froggy baby. There was I thinking we would get on so well with me being a hetrosexual Muslim and all.
Not arse licking the governement but providing an alternative point of view.
Seems all here are united in convicting the 'pig' before the trial.
What I'm saying is that it would take a nutter to do something like that in public without cause.
The cop claimed it was a warning shot and with the new evidence it looks like he was telling the truth.

Still I'm sure that will be dismissed as fabricated so they can all continue fucking christmas up for the civilised people.

Enjoy being wrong all.

 

[derf]

Warning shot shouldn't ricochet and kill someone. It's still murder.

What a fucking stupid statement. Last ditch try at defending the fucking idiot riots.
Face it the witnesses were fibbing and the riots are bollocks.

 

[Talkie Toaster]

Shouldn't warning shots be fired into the air so they don't ricochet?

 

[articul8]

Or maybe not

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7774634.stm


Looks like it was a warning shot as the police claimed.

4 days of riots, burning and looting. All that and it looks like the "pigs" rolleyes were telling the truth anyway. So much for assuming murder 'cos it was the nasty pigs wot did it.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

"Court sources" being indisputably neutral of course - not even slightly convenient, insinuating it was a ricochet in an attempt to defuse anger before a huge general strike (without publishing the ballistics report)?

And even if it was true, it hardly looks like "proportionate" and responsible policing to shoot - even in warning - at a group of kids chucking stones. And it most certainly wouldn't take away the deep sense of anger and resentment expressed towards the Greek authorities. This wasn't an isolated case - it was just the spark that set the blaze alight.

 

[perplexis]

What a fucking stupid statement. Last ditch try at defending the fucking idiot riots.
Face it the witnesses were fibbing and the riots are bollocks.

You really haven't an ounce of humanity in your soul.
It is still murder, you're being a lame apologist for the police; you seem to be a big fan of the machinery of the state, all states, and evidently you don't have any interest in questioning it.

I don't need to justify anything, nor am I trying to. You need to somehow explain how shooting someone by pointing a gun in their general direction isn't seriously bad.
So far you've claimed that they deserved it because they were throwing stones. Ummm, I don't know if shooting someone under those cirumstances can be considered fair or proportionate or justifiable. It has some echoes of the IDF wounding or killing Palestinian children over similar matters, does it not?

But you won't change your opinion, regardless. Even if it were to emerge that the cops shot this poor kid directly, and with intent, you'd probably still think it was justified.

 

[perplexis]

Shouldn't warning shots be fired into the air so they don't ricochet?

Yes.

 

[Melinda]

Oh froggy baby. There was I thinking we would get on so well with me being a hetrosexual Muslim and all.

I dont think this remark should pass unchallenged.
It is a snide, sneering and miserable sputum of a comment, had it been almost anyone else I would have said it was beneath them.

Not arse licking the governement but providing an alternative point of view.
Seems all here are united in convicting the 'pig' before the trial.
What I'm saying is that it would take a nutter to do something like that in public without cause.
The cop claimed it was a warning shot and with the new evidence it looks like he was telling the truth.

Still I'm sure that will be dismissed as fabricated so they can all continue fucking christmas up for the civilised people.

Enjoy being wrong all.

How odious.

Are you aware that the dead boy's parents have asked for an independent autopsy?

Instinctively you blamed the boy for his own death. You referred to him as a twat, a fucker- remember this was a child.

You stated that if the police 'shot the little twat' it must have been justified. Now suddenly its if police had gunned a child down in the street that would be the behaviour of a nutter.

Currently you're revelling in the fact they might have shot him mistakenly?

You celebrate the death of a child and still count yourself amongst the 'civilised people'.

 

[greenman]

Greece is evidently going through a period of great discord and tumult.

It is shocking how quickly it has escalated out of control, and how this beautiful country - land of reason, debate and philosophy...land of Aristotle, Plato and the mighty Alexander the Great - has descended into scenes of destruction, wanton rampage and mindless rioting. Much of this simply ends up being attacks on the struggling working classes, and public property held in common ownership.

Perhaps one day soon, the people of Greece - government and citizenry alike - will lay down their swords of anger, fighting and destruction and start ploughing a path to the future, re-building and creating a new country and a new nation built on tolerance, peace and respect.

You don't quite get this capitalism lark do you? The basic rule is accumulation, accumulation, accumulation, until all is consumed, and then the system will consume itself, to the general ruination of all. On the way, all human bonds that are not economic bonds will be dissolved (all that is solid melts into air as the old man said). All ethical and moral constraints that get in the way of accumulation will be swept away wherever possible. all politics will be corrupted to the level of gangsterism (the ancient Greeks knew this about "representative" "democracy" a long long time ago)
Look at Greece, now, and see the future of the world.

 

[Stella]

just a quick post at the moment

Just a quick note for you derf as well, and I will come back with a reply to all of the things you posted one by one, only later, I have to go out again- By the way the bit of the demonstration I was part of was extremely peaceful not even a nose bleed, coming back though things were getting heated, tear gas etc and too many of your police friends derf looking pathetic and totally stupid they couldn't even answer me a simple question such as"can I go through here" you know, the street they were bloody guarding with such great devotion. I had to ask twice to get a stupid node back , anyway things have already started to heat up at different places in Athens-I will come back with more later- but also some seat-down demonstrations(I think you call it that) earlier in front of the MAT(riot police). I believe Dimitris is going to be part of this one and I'm sure he 'll give again his news.
Now back to you derf, photos of your burned up Xmas tree coming soon at a theatre near you, but forgot to leave a flower for you there, prefered to leave it where Alexis was shot dead!