Assange to face extradition

[Balbi]

Means invalidating the EAW. That precedent.

 

[smokedout]

Ask him.

But why not ask, given the above, why aren't Sweden agreeing to JA's demands?

People wanted for a criminal offence don't usually get to make these kinds of demands. I had a friend who faced an European Arrest Warrant, he didnt get to make any demands.

Assange's demand to be questioned here is even more flaky than his request for a guarantee against US extradition. Why does he want them to question him here? If they do, and decide to charge him, will he go with them? How is Assange's position helped by them questioning and arresting him in the UK?

 

[Wilf]

It does make me wonder if Jeffery Archer and the like insisted on being questioned in their front room after being arrested.

'I will submit to your questions, but only if we sit in the gazebo. Oh and send a footman round to Ken Loach and tell him he'll have to make another dreadful film if he wants his 20 grand back'.

 

[cesare]

'I will submit to your questions, but only if we sit in the gazebo. Oh and send a footman round to Ken Loach and tell him he'll have to make another dreadful film if he wants his 20 grand back'.

 

[belboid]

Did Jeffrey Archer or smokedouts friend have a good reason to fear onward deportation for political 'crimes'? If not, the comparisons are specious.

Should not ANY person who has such a fear be given a guarantee they won't be so forwarded? I think they should.

 

[Balbi]

Have a house point.

 

[belboid]

Means invalidating the EAW. That precedent.

I disagree.

 

[Balbi]

*takes back house point*

So from then on anyone who has an EAW against them can get their lawyers to argue that they should be questioned in the country they reside in?

Your argument rests on Assange's fear of something which hasn't happened, and shows no indication of happening imminently.

 

[cesare]

This onward deportation malarkey seems to be a long time coming.

 

[DexterTCN]

...Your argument rests on Assange's fear of something which hasn't happened, and shows no indication of happening imminently.

I don't think that's correct. I think JA's fears are well grounded. You'll remember american newscasters and politicos were saying he should be shot, others were saying he should be jailed for treason. The treatment of Manning would definitely increase this concern. Adding in the lack of any statement by the US on the matter when there are plenty of people saying there is a grand jury already convened would be more than enough 'proof' for any normal person, never mind JA to make sure they never got any place near the clutches of the US.

 

[smokedout]

Should not ANY person who has such a fear be given a guarantee they won't be so forwarded? I think they should.

Wouldn't that be lovely. But since no-one ever has then why is the Swedish government likely to do so now?

 

[Wilf]

I don't think that's correct. I think JA's fears are well grounded. You'll remember american newscasters and politicos were saying he should be shot, others were saying he should be jailed for treason. The treatment of Manning would definitely increase this concern. Adding in the lack of any statement by the US on the matter when there are plenty of people saying there is a grand jury already convened would be more than enough 'proof' for any normal person, never mind JA to make sure they never got any place near the clutches of the US.

I'm sure he has fears - if I was Assange I'd be fuckin' shitting it about ending up in America (whether it's via Sweden or the UK). But yes, the question is, whether they are well founded fears. More to the point, should any of that stop him facing a proper investigation into what are at least plausible accusations (plausible in the sense that the Swedish authorities still want to proceed and there has been nothing to suggest their motives are ultimately to pass him on to the U.S).

 

[smokedout]

Adding in the lack of any statement by the US on the matter when there are plenty of people saying there is a grand jury already convened would be more than enough 'proof' for any normal person, never mind JA to make sure they never got any place near the clutches of the US.

Obama doesn't need this right now, he's got an election to worry about, Cameron doen't need it either, in fact the only person who needs it, right now, is Assange

Theres been murmurings from the US, nothing much but interesting

U.S. State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said on Monday that Assange was making "wild assertions about us, when, in fact, his issue with the government of the United Kingdom has to do with whether he's going to go ... face justice in Sweden for something that has nothing to do with WikiLeaks."

"So he is clearly trying to deflect attention away from the real issue," Nuland said.
Nuland's predecessor, P.J. Crowley, said that by taking refuge in Ecuador's embassy and demanding that the United States "renounce its witch-hunt" against WikiLeaks, Assange made it more difficult for Washington to abandon what officials acknowledge is a continuing U.S. probe of Assange and WikiLeaks.

Crowley said that Assange, in a speech on Saturday from an embassy balcony, had "challenged the president" to close down the investigation. But Assange's demand made it politically more difficult for President Barack Obama to do that, particularly during a presidential election season, he said.

Assange has "painted himself into a corner and he's going to stay there for some time," said Crowley, who resigned after criticizing the government's treatment of alleged WikiLeaks source Bradley Manning.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/22/us-wikileaks-assange-usa-idUSBRE87L12W20120822

 

[DexterTCN]

I'm sure he has fears - if I was Assange I'd be fuckin' shitting it about ending up in America (whether it's via Sweden or the UK). But yes, the question is, whether they are well founded fears. More to the point, should any of that stop him facing a proper investigation into what are at least plausible accusations (plausible in the sense that the Swedish authorities still want to proceed and there has been nothing to suggest their motives are ultimately to pass him on to the U.S).

Well...let's say that you're at the sea and going in for a swim...are you saying if you had reasonable fears of a shark you would still go in but you would not go in if you had well-founded fears? The fear has added weight from the consequences which, we would all agree, are fucking major.

I have concerns, that I've posted before...however there are two fucking threads with 2700 posts between them! so fuck knows where!...(anyway)...

Like most things on urban these days situations seem very polarised

 

[DexterTCN]

Obama doesn't need this right now, he's got an election to worry about, ...

lmao yes! Obama doesn't need to catch a traitor/spy against america in an election year! That would never do, eh.

 

[Balbi]

lmao yes! Obama doesn't need to catch a traitor/spy against america in an election year! That would never do, eh.

He doesn't need a rehash of a lot of negative elements of wikileaks three months out from the election, he doesn't need to divide the democratic party over the wikileaks thing the way that its causing furore here, he doesnt need assange making more speeches from the witness stand.

Whacking Osama is one thing, 9/11 and all that. But Assange is a different case, and is divisive.

 

[junglevip]

There is plenty of truth on offer. Sometimes have to wait a while, and it cant be distilled down to a single really simple truth due to the number of players and layers. But many of these layers are not really hidden. Others are very murky and will never escape substantial doubt, but acts in these layers are often motivated by agendas that are visible to us, and its not absolutely necessary to know with certainty what happened in these realms in order to understand the truths of international politics.

Spoken like a true crank

 

[shifting gears]

Spoken like a true crank

Really?

Doesn't read that way to me; rather, like someone who recognises there are many factors/agendas at play, and in turn accepts that understanding the whole picture may actually be impossible given the multi -faceted nature of the situation.

 

[junglevip]

Really?

Doesn't read that way to me; rather, like someone who recognises there are many factors/agendas at play, and in turn accepts that understanding the whole picture may actually be impossible given the multi -faceted nature of the situation.

Piss off you pompous twat

 

[shifting gears]

Piss off you pompous twat

Ok you one-line maestro

 

[DexterTCN]

He doesn't need a rehash of a lot of negative elements of wikileaks three months out from the election, he doesn't need to divide the democratic party over the wikileaks thing the way that its causing furore here, he doesnt need assange making more speeches from the witness stand.

Whacking Osama is one thing, 9/11 and all that. But Assange is a different case, and is divisive.

Sorry I don't think so, I doubt there's much division in american politics about 'getting' JA and both sides would certainly consider it a massive boost in the polls, especially now he's tarred by half of urban as a rapist.

 

[Balbi]

Hah, the Repubs would sing hosannah. The democrats, being left, would argue. Obama needs democrats to all be in a line until Nov 6th. One would suspect that's why the Ecuadorean embassy are caring for him until after then

 

[smokedout]

Sorry I don't think so, I doubt there's much division in american politics about 'getting' JA and both sides would certainly consider it a massive boost in the polls, especially now he's tarred by half of urban as a rapist.

I believe the opinion of the urban politics forum is held in high regard by the US electorate and rightly so

 

[DexterTCN]

I believe the opinion of the urban politics forum is held in high regard by the US electorate and rightly so

Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.

 

[Wilf]

Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.

Are we the elephant or the donkey?


[This space may be rented for puns and other low forms of humour]

 

[smokedout]

in the meantime if anyone fancies having a pop at this garbage do feel free: internationaltimes.it/
assange-and-anglo-saxony/

 

[frogwoman]

Hah, the Repubs would sing hosannah. The democrats, being left, would argue. Obama needs democrats to all be in a line until Nov 6th. One would suspect that's why the Ecuadorean embassy are caring for him until after then

i suspect that the repubs' heads would explode, although it's' probably easier for them to believe the allegations assange because nobody is pregnant

 

[Kaka Tim]

Surely if arresting and charging Assange was such a vote winner/priority for the yanks they might have actually done something about it by now?

His defenders are using the same logic as the diana conspirators; that because someone has powerful enemies anything bad that happens to them must be due to an evil plot - rather then them being the author of their own fate - i.e. - getting in a car driven by a drunk driver and not wearing a seat belt - or being a sex case.

And even if the US are putting pressure on sweden and/or the uk behind the scenes to 'get' Assange - hes still a fucking dick for gifting them the opportunity.

On the Occupy Facebook page there's people comparing his speech on the balcony to Martin Luther King ffs.

 

[DexterTCN]

...His defenders are using the same logic as the diana conspirators...

You made a couple of points that could be discussed but that bit just takes the give-a-fuck out of me.

 

[8115]

From radio 4 just now "because the embassy has no proper kitchen, they've already had to buy a bigger fridge".

Sometimes the world really delivers, you know?