Assange to face extradition

[butchersapron]

Butchers is not a lawyer and if were not true someone would have been presented by now to refute it.

People have over and over and over.

 

[agricola]

Butchers is not a lawyer and if were not true someone would have been presented by now to refute it.

What scandal have you been following? Lots of people have been presented to refute it, its just they have all been ignored / dismissed because they are interfering with the meme.

 

[JimW]

Maybe that is why he entered the Ecuadorian embassy?

But only after a couple of years (was it?) before the UK courts (ETA and so presumably in their power for a black bagging) arguing only about going Sweden.

 

[Deareg]

People have over and over and over.

Where?

 

[Jon-of-arc]

so this speech he just made outside the embassy, did he say anything new? doesnt look like it, from what I can tell.

e2a this underwhelmed summary from the guardian seems to confirm it wasnt very exciting...

14:36 BST​

That seems to be it for now. Assange has gone back inside but the window leading to the balcony remains open.​

 

[Deareg]

What scandal have you been following? Lots of people have been presented to refute it, its just they have all been ignored / dismissed because they are interfering with the meme.

What am I looking for in that? because I missed anything that said he could not be further extradited.

 

[butchersapron]

Where?

Well you can have a look at agricola's link, you can look at legal commentary blogs like head of legal - and those of us who've been saying it over and over on here are really not just relying on some opinion pulled from our anus. We, in fact, appear to be the only people to have done any background research on this at all.

 

[JimW]

so this speech he just made outside the embassy, did he say anything new? doesnt look like it, from what I can tell.

There's a unity of oppression*

*offer not valid for victims of sexual assault

 

[Deareg]

so this speech he just made outside the embassy, did he say anything new? doesnt look like it, from what I can tell.

Nah, it was just a rallying call to the faithful.

 

[agricola]

What am I looking for in that? because I missed anything that said he could not be further extradited.

The press chief of the Swedish foreign ministry said on Thursday that the fear of Ecuador's foreign minister that Assange would be sent on to the US by the Swedes, and even be executed, are utterly groundless. Both Swedish law and Sweden's obligations under the European convention on human rights mean Assange could not be extradited to the US if he were wanted for a crime which might lead to the death penalty.

There is a Swedish extradition treaty with the US, but the process of extradition is long and very complicated. So far there is not even a charge against Assange in the US, which would be the first step in the process. We don't even know that the American justice system wants to try Assange.

Ironically enough, it would probably be easier for the Americans to get Assange from England, since the two countries are much closer to each other in many ways. But it's been a very long time since Assange did anything sensible.

Admittedly thats only the second half of the article, but still....

 

[Deareg]

Well you can have a look at agricola's link, you can look at legal commentary blogs like head of legal - and those of us who've been saying it over and over on here are really not just relying on some opinion pulled from our anus. We, in fact, appear to be the only people to have done any background research on this at all.

The only two places that I have been following this is on here and the various TV news channels, the only place that I have heard put forward that he can not be further extradited is on here, no offence but if I was in his shoes that would not fill me with confidence.

 

[JimW]

Admittedly thats only the second half of the article, but still....

It's not even just the death penalty as I recall, includes cruel and unusual punishments etc. And having exposed various states' disregard for the rule of law, he now suddenly reckons a guarantee will make a difference.

 

[Deareg]

Admittedly thats only the second half of the article, but still....

That only covers the death penalty, it looks to me that if the US give a guarantee that he will not face the death penalty then he can be extradited.

 

[Casually Red]

Anyone have any thoughts as to why Balthasar Garcon has agreed to act as his legal advisor in this case . Sexual assaults usually arent his thing . is it just another case of Johnny Dago foreigner giving blighty the 2 fingers , as has been suggested about the Ecuadoreans and others on this thread.

 

[Balbi]

So now Julian's got Wikileaks, Bradley Manning and now Pussy Riot between him and the questioning about the rape allegations. More layers of fantasy than inception.

 

[elbows]

So now Julian's got Wikileaks, Bradley Manning and now Pussy Riot between him and the questioning about the rape allegations. More layers of fantasy than inception.

And almost the entire continent of South America & their struggle. Like I said the other day, the hand of history is tugging at his pubes.

 

[agricola]

That only covers the death penalty, it looks to me that if the US give a guarantee that he will not face the death penalty then he can be extradited.

Yes, but then you come to the other issues with this case.

Firstly, they have not actually charged him with anything. Secondly, there are severe questions as to whether they even could charge him with anything - publishing leaked classified material, even in time of war, is not illegal and has a large body of caselaw (and a huge number of powerful and wealthy supporters) and an amendment to the US constitution showing that it isnt illegal.

 

[smmudge]

The press chief of the Swedish foreign ministry said on Thursday that the fear of Ecuador's foreign minister that Assange would be sent on to the US by the Swedes, and even be executed, are utterly groundless. Both Swedish law and Sweden's obligations under the European convention on human rights mean Assange could
not be extradited to the US if he were wanted for a crime which might lead to the death penalty.

The US wouldn't ask for his extradition on the grounds of a political crime, they'd find something else to base it on.

There is a Swedish extradition treaty with the US, but the process of extradition is long and very complicated. So far there is not even a charge against Assange in the US, which would be the first step in the process. We don't even know that the American justice system wants to try Assange.

There is plenty of evidence from the Manning trial, various subpoenas that have been issued etc. that there is a grand jury trying to build a case against wikileaks and Assange.

Ironically enough, it would probably be easier for the Americans to get Assange from England, since the two countries are much closer to each other in many ways.

When would the US have asked the UK for his extradition? Assange is not fighting to stay in the UK; he doesn't live here. Though this argument lends weight to the idea that the UK would be happy to waive specialty when he's sent to Sweden and if the US decide to try and get him extradited from there.

 

[agricola]

And almost the entire continent of South America & their struggle. Like I said the other day, the hand of history is tugging at his pubes.

Is that the same hand of history that is holed up at the Peruvian Embassy at the moment?

 

[elbows]

The same Murray who claimed on the day the asylum decision was reached that through his special channels he could confirm that The UK were going in militarily mob-handed as soon as they heard that decision. How can these people just walk away from such stuff time after time with their credibility intact amongst some people?

Will use the same logic as the conspiracy theorists when doomsday fails to arrive - 'they were going to do it but our voices and attention stopped them'.

Thats certainly the line Julian used. He could hear them scuttling up his fire-escape whilst he tried to sleep. A taste of his own medicine, he's lucky he couldnt feel them.

 

[JimW]

Read elsewhere that if they do frame charges it's expected to be for directing Manning and so being an accomplice to his "crimes" as a serving soldier, since the leaking as such isn't grounds.

 

[Deareg]

Yes, but then you come to the other issues with this case.

Firstly, they have not actually charged him with anything. Secondly, there are severe questions as to whether they even could charge him with anything - publishing leaked classified material, even in time of war, is not illegal and has a large body of caselaw (and a huge number of powerful and wealthy supporters) and an amendment to the US constitution showing that it isnt illegal.

They have applied for and been granted the extradition of people for internet piracy so I doubt very much that they will not find something to charge him with.

 

[butchersapron]

When would the US have asked the UK for his extradition? Assange is not fighting to stay in the UK; he doesn't live here. Though this argument lends weight to the idea that the UK would be happy to waive specialty when he's sent to Sweden and if the US decide to try and get him extradited from there.

He lived here before the EAW was issued. If they wanted to extradite him then that's precisely who they would have had to ask.

What is this waiving of specialty you talk of?

 

[agricola]

Read elsewhere that if they do frame charges it's expected to be for directing Manning and so being an accomplice to his "crimes" as a serving soldier, since the leaking as such isn't grounds.

The problem with that is that such a move would firstly be fairly transparent, and secondly would (one imagines) be vigorously opposed by the entire US media.

 

[2hats]

Anyone have any thoughts as to why Balthasar Garcon has agreed to act as his legal advisor in this case .

The very same Baltasar Garzón who issued the international warrant for the arrest of Pinochet...

 

[Deareg]

The problem with that is that such a move would firstly be fairly transparent, and secondly would (one imagines) be vigorously opposed by the entire US media.

You do know this is the USA we are discussing don't you?

 

[JimW]

The problem with that is that such a move would firstly be fairly transparent, and secondly would (one imagines) be vigorously opposed by the entire US media.

Yep. May well be what they would do if they do want him via due process or an approximation, either way some complicated plot involving sex charges in Sweden isn't a necessary part of the mix.

 

[butchersapron]

There is plenty of evidence from the Manning trial, various subpoenas that have been issued etc. that there is a grand jury trying to build a case against wikileaks and Assange.

So what? Is your argument that this justifies him not going to sweden? The bigger picture, cut the rape allegations out picture (not to forget getting angry at the mere suggestion that you don't want him to face rape allegations picture).

 

[butchersapron]

You do know this is the USA we are discussing don't you?

You know that it's not the issue don't you? Every attempt to reduce this down to Assnage vs the US, of perfidious albion vs the whole of latin america cuts the rape allegations away from this whole issue. It effectively says, fuck that shit, only the bigger picture counts.

 

[butchersapron]

The very same Baltasar Garzón who issued the international warrant for the arrest of Pinochet...

With no evidence!!!!