Armstrong tests positive?

[Nigel Irritable]

His next move will be dependent upon how his 'charities' are doing. If they do badly following this, he'll be on Oprah saying how hard he had it.

There are also potential legal consequences to bear in mind. Without those he'd go full Swaggart. But I doubt if his lawyers will be keen on that until and unless they're very sure that he isn't going to walk himself into a reopened FDA case, a new case from the Department of Justice or perjury charges.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

No surprised by that...Dowsett and Cummings have said some stupid things too:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19910165

Christ, the most generous interpretation I can put on those comments is that they are both thick as pigshit. Samuel Sanchez was even worse than those two, not far off Ricco's sentiments. Wiggins actually said something sensible rather than repeating his very Armstrong friendly previous comments. Kristoff and Nordhaug also made some pretty reasonable comments. Most riders, of course, prefer silence.

I see that the name of the Rabobank Doctor Leipheimer says doped him was redacted.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Are there English translations anywhere? Or am I being stupid as normal?

edit: I'm being stupid, ignore me.

The Italian language ones are actually amongst the most interesting, giving long lists of pros at Ferrari's training camps and also including chatter between Ferrari and a client about a whole bunch of other riders and what they might or might not be up to. Someone has translated this stuff over on the cycling news forums.

Perhaps the most fascinating bit of all is that Ferrari as of 2010 thought that standard EPO was for suicidal fools. He also advised his riders that hGH was bullshit.

 

[Frumious B.]

Are any of the details a surprise? I'm surprised - and stunned - that so much detail has been confessed by so many. But it was always pretty certain that the whole team would have had to be on the juice, otherwise they couldn't have worked so consistently together to control races. And we all knew that the logistics of so many secret injections and transfusions in the middle of stage races would have to be like a military operation. We've all heard about refrigerated motorcycle panniers etc. And it was always apparent that Bruyneel and Armstrong were the ruthless bastards who ruled the others. So I'm not sure why people are saying they're shocked.

 

[twistedAM]

Nike are still sponsoring Armstrong and his charity. Their statement really played up the latter.

 

[The Boy]

He's been convicted under the rules he signed up to be governed by.

Something that should be repeated at every available opportunity. The man has been found guilty. End of story.

Although I'm growing tired of telling this to people on another board for the nth time.

 

[Sigmund Fraud]

I'm seeing Armstrong as more and more of an entrepreneur - he enters the sport in the early 90s and sees the final stages of transition from the old era to the EPO era - he then sees the outrageous potential of the drug and the possibilities when using the best doping doctor - realising a power vacuum, blind eyes and an ultimately corrupt governing body and knowing there is no detection test he embarks on acquiring the rights to the best pharmacology and develops (with the best dirty DS out there) a strategy for gaining and maintaining a stranglehold in every sense on the sport. In parallel to this he manipulates his life threatening illness/recovery and self mythologises a brand around himself, explaining away his dominance as being based on inner strength, diligence, integrity and hard work. His rewards - both financial and from fan worship entrench his power and warn off challengers, intimidating and ridiculing all dissenters.

Its just business to him. After reading a lot of the mini report I have to respect his brass neck, canny moves and ruthlessness.

 

[The Boy]

I've always thought of him more as a cult leader. I guess entrepreneur works too though.

 

[Gingerman]

How many cancer lives have YOU saved?
How many £100m's have YOU raised for cancer research?

seems to be the current line of idiocy/defence on his facebook page.

ignoring of course that his organisation doesn't appear to do or fund any research - something i must admit i didn't realise till recently.

Doing 'lots' for charity can cover up a multitude of sins.

 

[The Boy]

So can we add Samu to 'the list'? I'm quite sad about that.

 

[Gingerman]

Nike are still sponsoring Armstrong and his charity. Their statement really played up the latter.

"Just Do It".......but dont get caught.

 

[Sigmund Fraud]

Could be looking at a perjury rap as well by the looks, $4.5M is no trifling amount.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19921705

 

[1927]

Could be looking at a perjury rap as well by the looks, $4.5M is no trifling amount.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19921705

$4.7m was only the last payment, he was pid for 3 years before that too, with interest chargesa dns tuff it is easy to see the toatl he has to repay being in excess of $20m

 

[Sigmund Fraud]

So out of court plea bargain to $10M and whats left of his rep remains...he's got the funds for that. They could even insist on the $20M and he could cope with that too. Don't think we'll ever see him in the dock.

 

[The Boy]

The Hog has been fired by RSNT. And that's even before he's gone to arbitration.

edit: actually he may only be suspended. Seems some on twatter jumped the gun on that one.

 

[1927]

So out of court plea bargain to $10M and whats left of his rep remains...he's got the funds for that. They could even insist on the $20M and he could cope with that too. Don't think we'll ever see him in the dock.

The compensation is well within his means, however, he lied to a federal investigation that may take a bit more to make go away> Marion Jones did jail time for lying in excatly thye same circumstances iirc.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Nicolas Roche has an interesting column about all of this:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/oth...ne-else-its-your-choice-admit-it-3257272.html

 

[where to]

Where are liggett and Sherwin?

 

[The Boy]

I'm beginning to think that Nico Roche's columns may be ghost written.

 

[Frumious B.]

Has my collection of Lance pin badges gone down in value? Or up? Prices seem surprisingly firm today. http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=lance+armstrong+pins

They were bought for their fascinatingly nauseous kitsch value, but I think now's the time to start wearing them.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

I'm beginning to think that Nico Roche's columns may be ghost written.

As I understand it, they are effectively "in conversation with" columns. He talks with a journalist on the phone, then the journalist cleans things up and inserts a structure.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Where are liggett and Sherwin?

Hiding down an African mine.

 

[Frumious B.]

Simeoni speaks: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/simeoni-armstrong-and-past-still-haunt-me
Fascinating. He's very direct, very honest. That incident is what stopped me being a Lance fan.

 

[butchersapron]

Simeoni speaks: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/simeoni-armstrong-and-past-still-haunt-me
Fascinating. He's very direct, very honest. That incident is what stopped me being a Lance fan.

How weird, i just literally - and i do mean literally - just finished talking to geri about this and was going to bring that incident up. One reporter said he finished the stage drenched in the peleton's spit.

 

[Jazzz]

There was a song David Zabriskie used to sing on the team bus, one that used to make Bruyneel laugh. It went to the tune of Jimi Hendrix's "Purple Haze": "EPO all in my veins/ Lately things just don't seem the same/Actin' funny, but I don't know why/ 'Scuse me while I pass this guy."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-drug-tests-lies-and-liquid-gold-8207881.html

 

[butchersapron]

Why have you posted this?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

It seems that USADA have finally won the media war. There's pretty much nobody left in the media running with the "he didn't do it" line.

 

[butchersapron]

It seems that USADA have finally won the media war. There's pretty much nobody left in the media running with the "he didn't do it" line.

Plenty running with they all did it, why pick on him. You're right though, it's turned, it's done.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Plenty running with they all did it, why pick on him. You're right though, it's turned, it's done.

Yes, "they all did it, why pick on him" still has a strong following, but that sort of last stand doesn't do Armstrong any favours ultimately in terms of public adulation. "The rest were as bad as him" necessarily implies "he was as bad as the rest", which might be more generous than anyone here would be, but isn't the sort of thing you can maintain a heroic public profile based on.

The ASO have also played it right by saying that they'll keep his stripped wins vacant. That helps make sure that the conversation is about how terrible the whole period was rather than squeals about the ridiculousness of other dopers being awarded his wins.

He's going to be remembered as a punch line.

 

[The Boy]

I have seen a fair few people insisting that Lance was still the best given that everyone was on the same stuff. Not media, but folk on BBs, FB etc. The fact that that line of argument isn't even accurate seems to be irrelevant. Good to see that the whole tone around the peloton *appears* to be changing too.

Incidentally, the Bertagnolli case is going to cause a few riders to answer some hard questions - notably Kreuziger, who iirc was already under scrutiny.

edit: I take it everybody saw Wiggins insisting that he had never raced against Lance at the TdF the other day? Obviously been partying hard since he called it a day for the season .