Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Oh do fuck off.
Armstrong tests positive?
- Thread starter butchersapron
- Start date
Oh do fuck off.
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
One that LA was at the centre of and which was illegal.
Again, you seem to be wildly missing the point that Frumious was making.
I'm not defending 'lancelovers'. I am defending 'conspiracy theorists'. Because for years there was a conspiracy which was true across the whole industry. I don't like this term 'conspiraloons', which was the the point of my post. It implies that all conspiracy theories are not true. The truth of things is that conspiracy theories damn well can be true. When they are accepted, they are no longer seen as 'conspiracy theories' at all. That is all my point was.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You don't even know which side are the conspiracy freaks.
No, it just implies that to some people everythings a blooody conspiracy.
If you are asking whether I believe Armstrong doped or not - you could look at post #71 on this thread which I made in 2010 which was fairly unequivocal - or there are other posts still on the server going back before that concerning both Lance Armstrong and my confidence in the UCI in the 2009 Tour de France thread.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I didn't ask you that. I didn't ask you anything. Your posts at #71 is a disgrace and on the same level as the pro-lancer loons. Take this approach elsewhere after this - i'm not interested.
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
I think you are missing the point. Conspiraloons think everything is a conspiracy, in the case of LA and cycling at the pro level there was a very real conspiracy in the real and legal sense of the word. The case against LA is not a conspiracy, just because the LA lovers think it is it doesnt make it true.
To summarise, LA was involved in a real conspiracy to hide the fact that parts of the peloton were on drugs. the attempts to bring the truth out into the open is not a conspiracy. Hope that clears things up.
eh? my post from 2010 was:
"Armstrong comes across to me as a ruthless character, who was most certainly doped, like the rest of them at the time, but unlike the others still vehemently denies it."
If you consider that a 'disgrace' I think there is no shame in being disgraceful in your book.
So 'conspiraloon' is a term used to describe someone who believes a conspiracy theory which isn't true, whereas those who believe a conspiracy theory which IS true are not 'conspiraloons'?
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
So 'conspiraloon' is a term used to describe someone who believes a conspiracy theory which isn't true, whereas those who believe a conspiracy theory which IS true are not 'conspiraloons'?
I think you have it in one there!
So while a conspiracy is succeeding, those who rumble it are considered 'conspiraloons' by those who it deceives. Later on, should they be proved correct, they are no longer 'conspiraloons'.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Shall we all agree to ignore it?
So while a conspiracy is succeeding, those who rumble it are considered 'conspiraloons' by those who it deceives. Later on, should they be proved correct, they are no longer 'conspiraloons'.
They aren't rumbling it you fucking arse. Think all the fluoride in the tap water is rotting you brain, you cock.
Before posting again please, please, please go back and read FrumiousB's post again. Then, once you have actually understood the point he was making, think about what you are trying to say.
Either that or just start a thread about holographic fluoride in alien chemtrails or some shite.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Please God.
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
So while a conspiracy is succeeding, those who rumble it are considered 'conspiraloons' by those who it deceives. Later on, should they be proved correct, they are no longer 'conspiraloons'.
No.
Sigmund Fraud
893 all the way.
Oh for crying out loud, do you really think I do not understand the point in FrumiousB's post? Is it you lot who completely fail to understand my point, which is that 'conspiracy theories' are derided until they may be proved correct, in which case everyone forgets that they were 'conspiracy theory', and thus deriding people simply because they may believe a conspiracy theory is in itself quite silly, and this is proved by (now proved) massive conspiracy which included the top of the UCI downwards, which would certainly have been called 'conspiracy theory' years ago.
Anyway I am leaving this too as it was only ever intended to be a side point
Didn't see this until I posted. I should probably have heeded the advice.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
It was known that doping was rife in cycling at the time, it never really was a "theory".
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
I think you are missing the point again. Doping in cycling was a conspiracy, which is different to there being a conspiracy theory.
eta. sorry Sleater got there before me!
so on the strength of this thread (and a new found interest in cycling generally) I have ordered 'The Secret Race' from Amazon.
Does anyone know if you can get the David Walsh book in the UK? (I may be being a bit shit at the internet, only found it in french or from the US). is it still banned in the UK?
Does anyone know if you can get the David Walsh book in the UK? (I may be being a bit shit at the internet, only found it in french or from the US). is it still banned in the UK?
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
Yes. Our libel laws tend to favour the complainant
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
I doubt they'll publish it here because it's a bit out of date. Walsh is probably working on a new book which will have all the good bits from his French book in it.
In the meantime there's tons to read. Floyd gave an interesting interview http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/38243308 and Betsy did a live video chat thing the other day. The audio recording is here, well worth a listen. http://www.tourchats.com/podcasts/2012/TourChats_44.mp3 She talks about her opposition to doping, how she could tell Frankie was using EPO when she saw him at Sestriere on the TV and then flew over to give him a bollocking. Frankie was chided by Lance for not doing the other PEDs and refusing to see Ferrari. Then he was frozen out and denied his Tour bonus.
Betsy's the hero of this entire story - Frankie is lucky to have her. She says she and Frankie have done a lot behind the scenes and she'll talk about it one day. I've been desperate to get the Betsy Andreu Appreciation Society cap http://velocitynation.com/content/features/2011/baas-cap-kickstarter. They sold out ages ago but the NY Velocity guys seem to be coming round to the idea of ordering another batch.
Betsy also points to a few old articles which were rare examples of journalists asking the right questions, http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-09-07/news/tour-de-farce/full/ and http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2010/flashback-99-tom-goldman-and-npr and http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jun/24/sports/sp-armstrong24 The SF Weekly one fingers the uber-villain who started it all, Thomas Weisel.
Seems like we can expect Weisel and many other villains to be exposed in the coming months. We might find out how political pressure was used to get the FDA to drop their investigation (almost causing Novitzky's resignation). Another juicy titbit is that Armstrong's backers were amongst the donors to the Floyd Fairness Fund http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/01/commentary-curious-intersection-lance-and-landis/?page=2
In the meantime there's tons to read. Floyd gave an interesting interview http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/38243308 and Betsy did a live video chat thing the other day. The audio recording is here, well worth a listen. http://www.tourchats.com/podcasts/2012/TourChats_44.mp3 She talks about her opposition to doping, how she could tell Frankie was using EPO when she saw him at Sestriere on the TV and then flew over to give him a bollocking. Frankie was chided by Lance for not doing the other PEDs and refusing to see Ferrari. Then he was frozen out and denied his Tour bonus.
Betsy's the hero of this entire story - Frankie is lucky to have her. She says she and Frankie have done a lot behind the scenes and she'll talk about it one day. I've been desperate to get the Betsy Andreu Appreciation Society cap http://velocitynation.com/content/features/2011/baas-cap-kickstarter. They sold out ages ago but the NY Velocity guys seem to be coming round to the idea of ordering another batch.
Betsy also points to a few old articles which were rare examples of journalists asking the right questions, http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-09-07/news/tour-de-farce/full/ and http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2010/flashback-99-tom-goldman-and-npr and http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jun/24/sports/sp-armstrong24 The SF Weekly one fingers the uber-villain who started it all, Thomas Weisel.
Seems like we can expect Weisel and many other villains to be exposed in the coming months. We might find out how political pressure was used to get the FDA to drop their investigation (almost causing Novitzky's resignation). Another juicy titbit is that Armstrong's backers were amongst the donors to the Floyd Fairness Fund http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/01/commentary-curious-intersection-lance-and-landis/?page=2
The cyclists, no. But for the UCI, the authority itself, to be corrupted all the way to the top, yes.
Lot of reading tomorrow while my front room is made watertight, cheers. Would probably agreed with you on Betsy, though.
I'm ignoring the hologram of Jazzz.
Frumious B.
Well-Known Member
If you have any questions after you've read all that, perhaps you could fill in the blanks by giving Lance a ring. He's just tweeted his phone number to half the world 
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