which just shows that neither the british government nor their erstwhile-friend Gadaffi didn't really give a fuck about the incident - only the real politik.
Argentina to fly the flag of Las Malvinas at London Olympics
- Thread starter Casually Red
- Start date
which just shows that neither the british government nor their erstwhile-friend Gadaffi didn't really give a fuck about the incident - only the real politik.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
lets not forget that there were elements of the brit establishment who thought adolf had the right idea.
Although enemy of my enemy was not so much a tactic of necessitation with the british empire but a tactic of divide and rule.
Although enemy of my enemy was not so much a tactic of necessitation with the british empire but a tactic of divide and rule.
You do know that "Falkland" predates the name you slavishly use by around 75 years don't you?
I'm about as sympathetic towards Argentinian imperialism as I am to its British equivalent tbh
Deareg
Well-Known Member
I wonder what the indigenous people called them?
Whatever sound penguins make.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
there wasn't any
jesuscrept
bummed
I've not heard that one before. Where did you get that info from? I didn't know the PFLP did terrorism for hire.
jesuscrept
bummed
Yes we've all seen the photos of Philip with the nazi elite.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Noraid raised money for IRA, IRA takes 'aid' from Lybia, a country that bombs Pan Am flight 103. Noraid supporters outraged at terrorist incident
could you point us to this outrage expressed by Noraid donors ? Im unaware of it myself. Where can I read about it ? perhaps a random generalisation in the Daily Mail or something.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
GC is a different group
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
unlike the British or US Governments thats not my actual doctrine . Id be every bit as opposed to say people of Pakistani or Bangladeshi origin , or indeed Irish for that matter, deciding that the bit of england they have numerical superirority in should be annexed to another country . Hitler used this very same argument to justify rolling into the sudetenland and Danzig . It was what the people there wanted afterall . Im just as opposed in principle to British imperialism as I am US imperialism ,French Imperialism , NATO imperialism and imperialism in general . But i suppose it suits your purposes to ignore the entire international argument and debate on the subject of Las Malvinas , which goes way beyond Argentinas borders , and pass it off as a grudge or whatever . Suit yourself.
jesuscrept
bummed
I didn't know PFLP GC did terrorism for hire.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
Have you been to England many times?
What indigenous people? There is NO indigenious population in the traditional sense. The islands were abandoned by Argentina in about 1815, and no one lived there again until about 1850 when the English landed and claimed it as a colonial territory.
By my reckoning, if you abandon something and walk away from it, you are relinquishing right of ownership and also forsaking your interest in it.
The Argentinians only wanted it back once someone expressed an interest in it.
I'd reccomend the excellent Razors Edge by Hugh Bicheno as a good history of the 1982 conflict (war never being officially declared).
Having said that, the invasion of the falklands was spurred by the 1981 Knott review which advocated the removal of the UK naval presence in the southern atlantic (ie scrapping HMS endurance) , which Argentina took as the Uk effectively defaulting on its military interest in the island.
Fact is, the knott review was so severe - and funnily enough, echoed in the recent similar defence review which eviscerates the UK armed capability - that if the Argentines had invaded 12 months later, we could NOT have retaken the falklands. Some UK Air Squadrons were scrapped even 3 months after winning citations for bravery and duty.
All in all, with the similar defence review this year, and Argentina still laying claim on the island, its as if Cameron has followed the thatcher playbook almost to the letter. At pains of being cynical, Pince William would make a great prize should the Argentines decide to relaunch an offensive. Its a highly unlikely scenario though.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Im not onside with the taleban or the host of similar fuckwits , much as it doesnt bring a tear to my eye to see the NATO forces get a bloody nose either .
The political principle I agree with in this instance is a widely held one accross an entire continent. While on an emotional level I sympathise with it ,on the political and analytical level I actually think about it and agree with it , because I think the Bolivarian anti imperialist analysis is the correct one and the imperialist analaysis incorrect . If the tables were turned and there were a few hundred Argentinian settlers inhabiting one of the shetlands or orkneys and declaring that Argentinian territory and therefore Argentina should have access to the surrounding national resources , my attitide would be - once i decided to be serious about it - fuck off , Argentina is thousands of miles away , wise up .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
there are dozens of uninhabited islands off the Irish coast . Just because there arent Irish people living on them doesnt mean anyone who wants them can take them . Your reckoning is bollocks im afraid .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
theyre quite close to Iran and detonating bombs in planes luggage was a bit of a speciality of theirs. Hence the speculation .
Does this question have a point?
I'm talking about the Falklands, not Ireland. Don't get the two confused. I'm NOT discussing the issue of Irish territory, and you'd be a fucknut to think I am.
There's also the issue of territorial waters, which are classifed as being within 12 miles of the coast in nautical terms.
These uninhabited islands you talk about off the Irish coast presumably lie within the 12 miles, and thus are in territorial waters, and thus are to be considered part of Ireland. Yes? The issue over distance and territorial waters is of tremendous importance in some circles, for example Sealand, an ex WWII UK naval fort which has been declaring its cause of independence for years. Which whilst you may consider belittles the issue, the same legal principles apply. Same as places like Rockall - disputed territory, and unresolved (Rockall being about 30 square meters in total I think (if that), the reason for the territorial dispute is about the resources that lie beneath it).
If you think I was discussing about islands offlying the irish coast within territorial waters and saying anyone could claim them, You'd be wrong. I never said that, and don't put words in my mouth that were never there.
Outside territorial waters, you have no claim to that territory being yours, in these post-empire days and where UN recognition is vital.
When you abandon territory, and leave it uninhabited - and I'm not just talking about ONE of the islands in the falklands, but every single island in the entire group was abandoned - you relinquish your claim on it.
The distance from Argentina to The Falklands? About 300 miles. Argentina relinquished and abandoned them in 1815, and didn't want them back. They are outside territorial waters. The UK claimed them as colonial territory.
Seriously, the analogy you make is like leaving your cooker in the middle of a park, and then when a scrap merchane comes along to claim it, shouting "oi! Thats mine! get away!" when its clearly been abandoned.
There's also the issue of territorial waters, which are classifed as being within 12 miles of the coast in nautical terms.
These uninhabited islands you talk about off the Irish coast presumably lie within the 12 miles, and thus are in territorial waters, and thus are to be considered part of Ireland. Yes? The issue over distance and territorial waters is of tremendous importance in some circles, for example Sealand, an ex WWII UK naval fort which has been declaring its cause of independence for years. Which whilst you may consider belittles the issue, the same legal principles apply. Same as places like Rockall - disputed territory, and unresolved (Rockall being about 30 square meters in total I think (if that), the reason for the territorial dispute is about the resources that lie beneath it).
If you think I was discussing about islands offlying the irish coast within territorial waters and saying anyone could claim them, You'd be wrong. I never said that, and don't put words in my mouth that were never there.
Outside territorial waters, you have no claim to that territory being yours, in these post-empire days and where UN recognition is vital.
When you abandon territory, and leave it uninhabited - and I'm not just talking about ONE of the islands in the falklands, but every single island in the entire group was abandoned - you relinquish your claim on it.
The distance from Argentina to The Falklands? About 300 miles. Argentina relinquished and abandoned them in 1815, and didn't want them back. They are outside territorial waters. The UK claimed them as colonial territory.
Seriously, the analogy you make is like leaving your cooker in the middle of a park, and then when a scrap merchane comes along to claim it, shouting "oi! Thats mine! get away!" when its clearly been abandoned.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
Yes. I'm curious
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
[quote="StraightOuttaQ,
and the distance to Britian is circa 5000 miles
yeah , ive been saying its colonialism all along , and pointing out many people right accross Latin America and the Caribean have a major problem with it being in their backyard.
no , the analogy i made was purely to colonialism and imperialism , while highlighting my view - and that of many other progressives - that it belongs in the dustbin of history.
and the distance to Britian is circa 5000 miles
yeah , ive been saying its colonialism all along , and pointing out many people right accross Latin America and the Caribean have a major problem with it being in their backyard.
no , the analogy i made was purely to colonialism and imperialism , while highlighting my view - and that of many other progressives - that it belongs in the dustbin of history.
jesuscrept
bummed
Speculation.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
how come Las Malvinas is slavish and Falklands isnt ? Could you explain that one to me ?
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
yup ,speculation
Yes, I agree. But my point is, a landmass outside territorial waters was wilfully abandoned, and interest in the property rescinded. About 200 years ago. Way before the UN, and the current sate of international law. (In fact, Im not sure when the concept of territorial waters was codified, but it is as it is as we speak).
I don't agree with taking lands by force, or in conflict, and NEVER will , but at this point, its about recognizing what is. And in Legal terms, the Falklands are UK sovereign territory.
Colonialism and empire? The Falklands - along with various other smatterings of territories - are all that remains of the empire, and thank god for that. The DFalklands is, to all intents and purposes, a self-governing, mostly autonomous English speaking community under the flag of the UK armed forces. The economy is fairly self-sufficient, and the only part of it which isn't is the UK military presence.
I'm not defending imperialism, christ no. I'm forever reminded of the monty python sketch abotu "those who valiantly died to keep China British". Colonialism - essentially conquest and invasion, hiding behind the auspices of trade - is essentially military action pretending to be liberation.
Deareg
Well-Known Member
Sounded like you then
Deareg
Well-Known Member
There were in what is now Argentina, if any one owned then then they did.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
No offence, but if you havent heard that one before then you cant have looked very much at Lockerbie and the aftermath. The PFLP-GC "theory" is even older than the Libya / Megrahi one is.
jesuscrept
bummed
Thanks.
about what though? What point are you hoping to make? Please tell me it is not some tiresome drivel about CR's declared 'anti-Imperialist' stance makes him 'anti-british'...
Similar threads
