Are bagels in New York better than bagels elsewhere?

[editor]

Isn't shit tasteless cheese standard everywhere? It's a bit better now than it was a few years ago I suppose, but there's still a lot of shit about. No need to get sneery.

Nothing 'sneery' about stating the facts. Most Americans seem to generally prefer the kind of cheese many Brits would describe as being very bland.

And here's why:

American cheese is a processed cheese. It is orange, yellow, or white in color and mild in flavor, with a medium-firm consistency, and melts easily. American cheese was originally only white, but is usually now modified to orange. It has been made from a blend of cheeses, most often Colby and Cheddar.

Today’s American cheese is generally no longer made from a blend of other cheeses, but instead is manufactured from a set of ingredients such as milk, whey, milkfat, milk protein concentrate, whey protein concentrate, and salt.

When some of these or other substitutes are used, it does not meet the legal definition of cheese in many jurisdictions, and must be labeled as "cheese analogue", "cheese product", processed cheese, or similar.

The marketing label “American Cheese” for “processed cheese” combined with the prevalence of processed cheese in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world has led to the term American cheese being used in the U.S. synonymously in place of processed cheese. Moreover, the term “American cheese” has a legal definition as a type of pasteurized processed cheese under the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_cheese

 

[Steel Icarus]

When I was in NY there was an advert for cheese on the telly. Not a kind or brand, almost a reminder to eat cheese.

And lo! YouTube has it. Look at how awful.

 

[Cheesypoof]

c'mon cheese - you of all people should know that surroundings & atmosphere effect how you percieve something.

yes, i suppose. Its a poets outlook. I try not to think this way anymore, instead focusing purely on the object, ie: the food and ignoring the ambience (it aint easy!)

 

[Cheesypoof]

I'm sure it was lovely and if you brought one round to me right now i would be chuffed, munch it down in seconds and consider you a good friend.
However if you were to also bring me a hot salt beef beigel with french mustard from brick lane then i would be ecstatic and eat that first savouring it over several minutes then consider you to be the love of my life.

hehe! sweet

 

[killer b]

Nothing 'sneery' about stating the facts.

this is just stating the facts?

Their cheese is, however, remains laughably rubbish. As does their tea.

looks pretty sneery to me.

i've never eaten yank cheese-food, but i can't imagine it being much blander than british mild cheddar. and even if it is, so what? it doesn't make our equivalent any better. it's still bland filler.

 

[Cheesypoof]

what about American 'pepperjack' cheese, and also 'bluestack cheddar'? aint they good?

i occasionally see them in Sainsburys, aint gotten round to buying em yet but i imagine US pepperjack cheese would suit a hamburger...

 

[twentythreedom]

what about American 'pepperjack' cheese, and also 'bluestack cheddar'? aint they good?

i occasionally see them in Sainsburys, aint gotten round to buying em yet but i imagine US pepperjack cheese would suit a hamburger...

it pains me to admit it but i do really like monterey jack cheese. it's particularly cool shit cos at the deli you get to ask for "jack cheese" which sounds cool, esp in american

 

[pogofish]

Cheese predates writing, so of course there aren't records of when the first cream cheese was made. But Sumeria is a lot more likely than anywhere on the American continent.

Kraft claim it was invented in the US in 1872:

http://www.philadelphia.co.uk/philadelphia3/page?siteid=philadelphia3-prd&locale=uken1&PagecRef=584

And from what I remember although an original product, cream cheese was the accidental result of trying to develop an industrial process to replicate traditional European soft cheeses without the maturing process - which are of course ancient but ending-up with something quite different instead.

There is also a possible transatlantic confusion here as cream cheese is the old name for cheeses made with whole milk - Stilton and the like.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yeah most supermarkets here are still piled high with tasteless rubbery cheddar. I suppose it's still a bit better than cheese slices but...

You must be going to the wrong supermarkets. There's some great cheddar around– often the supermarket's own brand is the best bet, funnily enough.

 

[editor]

i've never eaten yank cheese-food, but i can't imagine it being much blander than british mild cheddar. and even if it is, so what? it doesn't make our equivalent any better. it's still bland filler.

Seeing as you've never actually ever tasted the stuff, I'm afraid your opinion in this instance is worth monterey jack.

 

[tarannau]

Strangely enough, when I was putting together a cheese board for the MIL visit this weekend, I was spending a bit too much time on cheese related websites.

To give you an idea of how bad the US cheese situation compared to the UK, there were plenty of Americans trying desperately to find decent cheese (specifically cheddar) in the home cities, with more than one wondering where they could get anything 'as good' as the Seriously Strong brand of cheddar in the US. That's pretty bum standard supermarket fodder over here, but in the US that's an ultra-'sharp' gourmet cheddar by comparison. One take here

 

[skyscraper101]

I remember someone introducing me to cheese in a can in America. That was er, interesting.

 

[editor]

Strangely enough, when I was putting together a cheese board for the MIL visit this weekend, I was spending a bit too much time on cheese related websites.

To give you an idea of how bad the US cheese situation compared to the UK, there were plenty of Americans trying desperately to find decent cheese (specifically cheddar) in the home cities, with more than one wondering where they could get anything 'as good' as the Seriously Strong brand of cheddar in the US. That's pretty bum standard supermarket fodder over here, but in the US that's an ultra-'sharp' gourmet cheddar by comparison. One take here

When I lived in NYC, I'd buy cheese labelled something like "EXTRA SUPER SHARP MATURE" and it would invariably pack all the power of a mild, bland UK supermarket cheese.

You can find reasonably strong cheeses if you hunt down upmarket specialist stores or go to farmers' markets, but even then you'd be lucky to find anything to match the taste and strength of a good, strong Cornish cheddar.

 

[strung out]

i don't think it should be called cheddar if it's not made in cheddar anyway.

 

[editor]

i don't think it should be called cheddar if it's not made in cheddar anyway.

Caerphilly cheese isn't even made in Caerphilly any more. It comes from ENGLAND!

http://nationalconversationforengla...o-england-tescos-deceitful-product-labelling/

 

[Miss Caphat]

the very reason for the confusion was that there have been several threads on here about making cheesecake and whatnot where people were clearly confused about what American "cream cheese" was, and how to obtain it for yer cheesecake. You guys call it "Philly" or Philadelphia (hello, american brand name), and so I got the impression that European or UK "cream cheese" was something different. I have personally cleared up confusion here about US recipes that called for cream cheese, where most of the posters didn't know that meant "philly". So, sue me.



I stand by my pov,which is that I'M SORRY BUT IT's IDIOTIC TO GET MAD and bent out of shape about things like who makes the best bagels, and please note that I am not so insecure that I feel the need to defend American cheeses (though I have had some excellent cheese in my life) or american beer (same as above)



(edited to add, I just went back and re-read the thread to see if perhaps I'd said some really terrible stuff without realizing it. But no...I see me making some pretty innocent and off-the-top-of-my-head type comments, explaining that they were just guesses, and then everyone jumping all over me. Nice. Now Fuck off and eat some bagels, cheese and beer. And guess what? I don't give a fuck where they're from!)

 

[Miss Caphat]

you did say that a bagel isn't a bagel unless it's eaten with cream cheese though, which is clearly nonsense.

I stand by that. If you are having a sandwich, use bread. Otherwise, all the stuff just falls through the hole. And butter just tastes weird on a bagel.

 

[Miss Caphat]

Miss Caphat, you don't know much about your own cuisine, how much do you know about British food? My feathers remain unruffled btw (cool as a cucumber sandwich, you could say ), couldn't give a shit about how a nation I don't particularly identify with is perceived, I'm just a sucker for facts.

no, I think you're pissed off because you make bagels or something and are taking this too personally. I'm sure your bagels are fabulous.

and I know about British food because I lived in the UK.

 

[tarannau]

Worra unapologetic dickhead eh.

 

[killer b]

Seeing as you've never actually ever tasted the stuff, I'm afraid your opinion in this instance is worth monterey jack.

ho, ho, ho. well you've got me there ed. perhaps as an expert, you could explain to me how it's possible for something to taste of less than nothing then?

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

the very reason for the confusion was that there have been several threads on here about making cheesecake and whatnot where people were clearly confused about what American "cream cheese" was, and how to obtain it for yer cheesecake. You guys call it "Philly" or Philadelphia (hello, american brand name), and so I got the impression that European or UK "cream cheese" was something different. I have personally cleared up confusion here about US recipes that called for cream cheese, where most of the posters didn't know that meant "philly". So, sue me.

Philadelphia is far far far from what I would call real cream cheese. Yuck. terrible waste of smoked salmon if you are eating it with that. Though I suppose in a way it's very much the cream cheese equivalent of difference between that horrible yellow American mustard and English mustard.
There it is looking all 'english mustardy', you stick it on your wet watery hot dog (which again was disguised as a real sausage) and BAM it now tastes even worse than it did in the first place.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Their cheese is, however, remains laughably rubbish. As does their tea.

The mustard in america thing really upsets me for some reason, I don't think you could really top Japan though for it's lack of decent cheese. I have been to posh restaurants there where the caesar salad is topped with something akin to cheese strings. Tea though is done rather well.

 

[Pip]

no, I think you're pissed off because you make bagels or something and are taking this too personally. I'm sure your bagels are fabulous.

and I know about British food because I lived in the UK.

Nope try again mate, but if you're tapping the same resource you're using for the rest of your info we might be here a while.

 

[editor]

The mustard in america thing really upsets me for some reason, I don't think you could really top Japan though for it's lack of decent cheese. I have been to posh restaurants there where the caesar salad is topped with something akin to cheese strings. Tea though is done rather well.

I had the biggest salad I've ever had in the States once. It was like a landscaped garden with vast towers of processed cheese. Come to think of it, most of their mutantly large tomatoes are pretty rubbish too. Their juice is damn good though.

 

[QueenOfGoths]

America invented everything. FACT!

 

[tarannau]

Even when the same thing was in existence centuries before and brought over to multiple shores by migrants. It's the Philly what made the bagel real


I'd like to think Caphat was yanking our chain, but I think she honestly does believe this guff. I've never thought there were Bagel flat-earthers out there, but there's a first time for everything.

 

[rutabowa]

i don't know about bagels but they definitely do a better cooked breakfast in the states.

 

[tarannau]

Depends if you like things sugary. A high quality English fry up beats the square-sausaged equivalent, but pretty much every American hotel/diner will offer some temptingly gross and varied buffet in comparison to the mingy breakfast cereal and sub greasy spoon effort in most Uk establishments. American crispy bacon is shit mind

Brazilians beat the US for breakfast excesses mind. Like America, but with steaks and cakes. And more fresh fruit than you can shake a stick at.

 

[strung out]

I stand by that. If you are having a sandwich, use bread. Otherwise, all the stuff just falls through the hole. And butter just tastes weird on a bagel.

barmy. i have had plenty of wonderful bagels without having cream cheese anywhere near it.

 

[tarannau]

Apart from that, one of the quintessential and most traditional toppings for bagels is salt beef, which generally isn't accompanied by some Philly cheese-sludge, thank gawd.