Is Miss World a strong female role model?
Is Thatcher a strong female role model?
What do we mean by those words?
The very concept of a role model is dubious for anybody aged more than about eleven.
Is Miss World a strong female role model?
Is Thatcher a strong female role model?
What do we mean by those words?
Her explanation is getting things mixed up. Neoliberalism - the collapse in the rate of profit - is the steam-roller that is now forcing single mothers with young kids to seek work or lose benefits etc.
It's capitalism that forces women back to work after 6 months post-partum - not an effect of feminism. These things aren't effects of the feminist movement - intended or unintended.
The fight for work has been a feminist campaign far longer than since the 1970s, it had to be fought in the early Edwardian era to allow women entry into even the limited number of professions.
Also the women who you describe will always be at the mercy of their potentially abusive male husbands, if they remain dependent on them.
Fay Weldon is - now - either an extreme liberal feminist or not a feminist at all. She fairly recently proposed sterilising all women until they reached the age of 20.
Speaks a man I betcha. A man so unconsciously surrounded by role models he don't even recognise they are. They are just normal men doing what men do. Run things.The very concept of a role model is dubious for anybody aged more than about eleven.
Oh I dunno. We certainly seem to develop most of our values in our childhood, and particularly our teens so older than 11, and we do often retain those values. But as was said earlier, no man (or women) is an island, and the way others act around us, particularly those whom we see connections with on some level, will influence us in some way.The very concept of a role model is dubious for anybody aged more than about eleven.
Sorry to inconvenience you by disagreeing And I quoted you so you knew, just thought this thread was a more appropriate thread for it *shrugs*
So your problem with Cheryl is that she's done well by playing men at their own game?
There's power in sexuality kabbes. I think it's more than ok to use it, I resent being told otherwise. Men like to have this image of feminists of being lesbian cardigan wearers. Wonder why that is.
Speaks a man I betcha. A man so unconsciously surrounded by role models he don't even recognise they are. They are just normal men doing what men do. Run things.
I swear to god a disproportionate number of homophobic men want MFF.And yet those same blokes get their rocks off over lesbian* porn!
*When I say "lesbian porn", I mean the frankly scary stuff where 2 women in expensive lingerie, with immaculate make-up and mahoossive nail extensions lick and finger each other. Why scary? There's no way I'd want 2 or 3 fingers with big old nails on them up me!!
What do you mean by power?A man, yes, but I have no power whatsoever and have never consciously modelled myself on anybody. The idea of role models implies conscious imitation.
It happens everytime on feminism threads Bunch of bloody men turn up telling us what feminism is/isn't/should beI swear to god a disproportionate number of homophobic men want MFF.
Anyway I get the feeling that I'm not really contributing to this debate in any kind of coherent way cos I'm just fucking angry so I should back out.
Your an idiot.A man, yes, but I have no power whatsoever and have never consciously modelled myself on anybody. The idea of role models implies conscious imitation.
Fay Weldon is a self-important windbag.
But it's the unconscious modelling which is the most insidious and damagingA man, yes, but I have no power whatsoever and have never consciously modelled myself on anybody. The idea of role models implies conscious imitation.
The very concept of a role model is dubious for anybody aged more than about eleven.
Your an idiot.
You enter a debate of feminism stating that you are a man with no power whatsoever. And then that you don't see the point of female role models in positions of power.
Jog on.
I swear to god a disproportionate number of homophobic men want MFF.
What do you mean by power?
Oh I dunno. We certainly seem to develop most of our values in our childhood, and particularly our teens so older than 11, and we do often retain those values. But as was said earlier, no man (or women) is an island, and the way others act around us, particularly those whom we see connections with on some level, will influence us in some way.
It happens everytime on feminism threads Bunch of bloody men turn up telling us what feminism is/isn't/should be
Stick with it
But it's the unconscious modelling which is the most insidious and damaging
Do you know ... I walked away from the keyboard at that point, and just returned to it to say "except VP who doesn't actually undermine our own agency for change".Sorry.
Apart from a) understand the process, b) consciously challenge the negative consequences, and c) try and change the original stimulus so it's not such a problem in the first place.You can't do much about what comes unconsciously.
You are just unconscious of your power.Power over other people on a large or small scale. Like most other people, in reality I don't even have any power over my own thoughts let alone anything else.
Apart from a) understand the process, b) consciously challenge the negative consequences, and c) try and change the original stimulus so it's not such a problem in the first place.
A man, yes, but I have no power whatsoever and have never consciously modelled myself on anybody. The idea of role models implies conscious imitation.
You are just unconscious of your power.
For those most oppressed by our patriarchal capitalist system, there is no choice but to fight it to survive.Perhaps. Unfortunately, most people have neither the time nor the inclination (not to mention the ability and opportunity)-which helps explain why the world is such a fucking horrible place.
But it's the unconscious modelling which is the most insidious and damaging
Perhaps. Unfortunately, most people have neither the time nor the inclination (not to mention the ability and opportunity)-which helps explain why the world is such a fucking horrible place.
a) understand the process, b) consciously challenge the negative consequences, and c) try and change the original stimulus so it's not such a problem in the first place.
Nope, it doesn't, unless you ignore all the developmental research that says imitation is also unconscious - that exposure is enough to promote behaviours, without a conscious choice on the part of the imitator.
Perhaps you know something that 80+ years of developmental psychologists haven't discovered, though!