cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Good point. I suppose they'd be OK if you had transport there and back, and no running required. I was going to mention their benefits for shoplifting too, but I suppose there'd be too much attention for that to work.
Apparently, Feminism is dead!!!
- Thread starter Treacle Toes
- Start date
revol68
what, fucking what?
Gobby online, quite reserved in person actually.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
My mum's got one too, somewhere. Tends to overwhelm her a bit being as she's only a dwt.Got one like that, except that it's a bit motheaten. And it doesn't quite sweep the ground. I've seen the state of cloaks worn outdoors where they swept the grass. It's a good look, as long as you ignore the things often found in the grass of public spaces.
You need the right cut and the right attitude to carry it off. I've seen some people look better in cloaks than in their normal stuff, while others look like prats in fancy dress.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
I'm just curious as to why a trait you value in yourself (albeit online) is something you don't value in others (specifically, in this case, women).
revol68
what, fucking what?
Being a short arse isn't a good start to cape wearing.
dwt?
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
It's a Welshism (she's Welsh) for small of stature.
What'd it look like? Bout eight inches in legnth? Pink on the end? Yeah, we know what comes next.
FWIW I look taller in mine, even barefoot, but it's cut to taper more steeply than one for a taller person. And it's mostly worn for some types of working, not fashion.
revol68
what, fucking what?
Oh I like gobby online in other people, and even like gobby amongst the friends or in the right context.
I was less thinking of actually lefties and feminists and more thinking of the posturing wankers you meet from time to time who think it makes them really interesting. Y'know Laurie Penny types.
I like a girl who can be gobby but it's backed up by a quiet, determined thoughtfulness, and some shyness.
Fuck that sounds awful, like a dating profile. In truth I dunno, I find weirdness attractive, not affected shite, just someone who looks a bit out of step with the world. I don't like people who seem driven or have their shit together.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I was just about to say a/s/l when I noticed you'd added that
I know what you mean, that's a good way of describing it. Unconventional but not in an affected/studied way.
Unless male and wearing the type of cloak favoured by RC priests with buttons right down the front and armholes. While, of course, radiating an attitude of absolute entitlement. It has to be seen to be believed.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Like the ones in the Spanish Inquisition sketch?
In plain black. Worn without a hat. And without the extra capey bit over the shoulders. But identical apart from that. I've even seen the smug git pull while wearing it.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Sounds as though it could be quite a good look. I'd also like a full length (or at least long calf) black leather trench.
To be fair, the wearer had more charisma than most people I've ever met.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Inviting Tory MPs can only broaden feminism in the wrong direction. Not a peril of activism. A specific conscious choice.
I don't welcome Kat Banyard and the Fawcett Society's collaboration with feminist women employers.
- For a while the Fawcett Society worked with the head of BT's Human Resources Caroline Waters, even producing a report called Corporate sexism in 2009 or 2010, largely about city firms using lap dancing clubs and firms not having stringent enough anti-pornography filters on office workplace computers. (Those aren't bad targets but the absence of any attack over employer provision of childcare is visible).
- And then by 2011 Caroline Waters becomes chief advisor of the government's red-tape cutting initiative on 'equalities and disabilities'.
- http://www.hrmagazine.co.uk/hro/new...red-tape-review-focus-diversity-equality-june
- She is blessed in this role by Equalities Minister Lynne Featherstone, clean as a whistle on expenses, but also someone who already has a Highgate mansion and was until she became an MP, an heir or director of a publishing firm with millions-worth of profit. She has accumulated her wealth and since 2005 has been sitting happy on her MP's wage.
- Tory and liberal feminism can only give equality to women by ramping up other forms of inequality, principally class inequality. The costs to business of any female-friendly provision, when provided on their terms, will be met by intensified surplus extraction from the base workforce (female and male). (Exploiting female workers abroad will be part of the equation too.)
- Kat Banyard's whole career (others have noted the importance of) is liberal feminism. Liberal feminism is perfect for those interested in a career in 'feminist advocacy' or 'feminist charity work'. Why? Because liberal feminist equality (broadly a 50-50 male-female split in all grades of the workforce, and hence the 'closure' of the 'pay gap') will never be achieved by liberal methods. Instead you will continue to churn out for Faber & Faber books like 'The Equality Illusion' to explain with a hundred different statistics to middle-class women the fact that the inequality is still continuing.
- (Charities incidentally are one sector of the economy where virtual liberal feminist equality has been achieved, the figures from 2009 show 47% of charity chief executives as women and a higher proportion of charity senior management are women compared to men. Yet anyone with any experience of this sector knows the rampant class division behind it, and the blackmail tactics used against any class-based activity within it.)
- UK Feminista has a leftist sounding name being the Spanish word for feminist (with all the Latin American associations of that -ista suffix ... Sandinista, Guevarista etc), but its political program is slow-burn poison for working-class people of both genders.
- Also, as 'intersectionality' was mentioned and so it not to be assumed I am having a go at just women, liberal anti-racism faces exactly the same problem. As soon as liberal anti-racism begins to have success in incorporating some immigrants into the state (black and Asian people from the old colonies), so it springs up new forms of chauvinism. 'Britain is one of the most tolerant, diverse places on earth (far better than those horrid south European places, never mind north Africas)'. 'Would you want to be foreign in Britain or in Morocco?'. 'Nothing against black people, but immigration as a whole has got to be halted, it's damaging the life chances of the second-generation poor'. The idea of foreign-ness or non-citizenship is never faced down, the 'foreign' are never seen as indispensible allies in the struggle of a 'British' working-class. Eventually as economic claims made for immigration turn sour, parts of the poor become an the alien entity within 'the nation' and they are marginalised, maligned like non-citizen immigrants once were.
- (Sometimes this is done by criticising the poor's 'failure' to incorporate immigrants, sometimes by how they dress, sometimes their general existence, daring to be poor and have children. Sometimes new (old) enemies like travellers or whole foreign states like Greece or France or China are thrown up instead.) You can see this happening in Scandanavia and in Denmark aswell as in Britain.
- In Germany, having imported the human produce of its adopted labour colony Turkey, the debate is about what do you do with them, now they are retiring? So pension rights are reduced in Germany for all on the explicit basis that 'we expected them to go home, but they didn't'. You achieving liberal anti-racist success (allowing the once guest-workers to stay) on the back of increasing class oppression.
- There has got to be a 'foreign' in capitalism, there is no working without it.
Treacle Toes
Time
Was with you until this point:
Can you expand a little on that please sihhi, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by it.
Can you expand a little on that please sihhi, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by it.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Was with you until this point:
Can you expand a little on that please sihhi, I'm not sure I understand what you mena by it.
I imagine he means populst bollocks about"foreign capitalists" dunno tho!
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I imagine "foreign" as in "other". Capitalism doesn't work without competition.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
That's how I understood it. It's a bit like when they say that anyone can become successful (be it boss of a company, or president of the US) if they work hard enough, while they're dead wrong on that, what it highlights is that not everyone can, because the system relies on there being people who aren't successful in order for it to function at all.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
But the twist in the tail is the ability to pursue class based politics without being anti-capitalist. So, one has to be quite clear what type of class based politics people espouse because not all of them are left. Cf the BNP, EDL etc.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
As I understood WoW's point, if you've grown up in a strongly patriarchical society or sub-section of it, then the mere thought of being put right by a woman (or being shown how to do a man's job by a woman, or having a woman explain something simple) in the presence of other men can be intimidating. It's not the woman at all, it's the weight of sexist men judging you as a cissy.
It's like being in a car a male is at the wheel driving driving you and other males to a wedding, and a woman is crossing the road and he says to the other men and the woman can't hear 'you've got an **** like a **** I'd like to rub, but hurry up we're late'. It's sexist you want to challenge it but everyone else is going to make a point of blaming you, judging you a "killjoy" 'there's no harm, she can't hear us anyway'.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
Well, of course. I don't think I was suggesting they were, was I? And in terms of your examples, one can't help think they could do with a dash of intersectional critique
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I didn't think you were! I was just picking up the point and running with it ... mainly to illustrate that whilst feminism without class politics is roundly criticised, so indeed can class politics without feminism.Well, of course. I don't think I was suggesting they were, was I? And in terms of your examples, one can't help think they could do with a dash of intersectional critique
Sihhi, yes that's how I understood William's comment too but I suppose I wanted him to analyse/explain it
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
I didn't think you were! I was just picking up the point and running with it ... mainly to illustrate that whilst feminism without class politics is roundly criticised, so indeed can class politics without feminism.
Sihhi, yes that's how I understood William's comment too but I suppose I wanted him to analyse/explain it
Aha! Okay, I was a bit confused
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
It comes back to the ongoing question of why the Left is fractured, I believe.Aha! Okay, I was a bit confused
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
Capitalism needs an explanation other than itself to explain its failures.
So yes it could be foreign competition, in the 1930s it was 'Japan' that put the mill-workers of Lancashire out of work (not capitalist overproduction and public underconsumption). In the 1970s it was Poland that put shipworkers out of work. Today it's 'India' and 'South Africa' taking over call-centre work, and 'China' putting manufacturing workers out of work. Within Britain's borders it's Poles putting unskilled Britons out of work, its asylum seekers and NHS tourists draining resources for hospitals, its their children weakening the effectiveness of schools. Foreign criminals draining the prison service (Any question of taking back British people in Australian prisons?) It's 'the EU' making Britain poor because it wants to, because we give money to them so they can give it to (lazy) Greece. Gordon Brown's 'there will be British jobs for British workers' (What is a British job?) Adverts in the 1950s "Is Your Pencil British?". An independent Scotland is a bad idea - 'we are a strong economic unit'. UNITE's campaign for jobs at Rover with English flags at half-mast. PCS arguing for more staff at Heathrow on the basis that our European competitors offer a quicker service and attract investment as a result (ie if a well-staffed, well-run Heathrow didn't attract investment - get rid of us - ie get rid of the twats in Prestwick); and fewer workers would mean shorter immigration interrogations. Strikes damage confidence in British industry.
On your guards against your class brothers and sisters from far off. The standard stuff.
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