Apparently, Feminism is dead!!!

[cesare]

Where has this happened?

Disabled people via DPAC
The cleaners via the IWW/IWGB

Two recent examples. There'll be more as the cuts start to hit harder.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Disabled people via DPAC
The cleaners via the IWW/IWGB

Two recent examples. There'll be more as the cuts start to hit harder.

Visteon and Vestas there will be more as the cuts hit harder

 

[cesare]

Visteon and Vestas there will be more as the cuts hit harder

The more, the better. Direct action, not cuts, obv.

 

[Captain Hurrah]

Visteon

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

The more, the better. Direct action, not cuts, obv.

I was pointing out that salaried workers are just as likely (or more pertinantly not take action) to take direct action.

The fact is in the UK right now there is no corelation between contract type and ability or willingness to take action, I don't droves of Starbucks or Pizza Hut workers taking action the same as I don't see droves of Norwich Union staff taking action

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

surely

 

[cesare]

I was pointing out that salaried workers are just as likely (or more pertinantly not take action) to take direct action.

The fact is in the UK right now there is no corelation between contract type and ability or willingness to take action, I don't droves of Starbucks or Pizza Hut workers taking action the same as I don't see droves of Norwich Union staff taking action

You mean direct action via the unions, I take it?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

You mean direct action via the unions, I take it?

I mean any sort

There are a handful of examples from non unionised or unionised workforces, contracted or casual over the last few years - neither of the groups you defined above is more or less likely to take action to improve their immeadiate circumstances

 

[cesare]

I mean any sort

How can you measure correlation unless you've worked out what contract-types the people taking action via e.g. UKUncut are on?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

How can you measure correlation unless you've worked out what contract-types the people taking action via e.g. UKUncut are on?

You started it you tell me

 

[cesare]

You started it you tell me

I didn't start it, Delroy did.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Delroy answer her question please!

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Look my point is that there is no evidence people in precarious positions are any more likely to take meaningful and effective action than people who aren't in the UK at the moment.

If you or Delroy can provide a graph maybe that sets out type of action and the people who have carried it, and the results of said action I cannot believe otherwise.

 

[cesare]

Look my point is that there is no evidence people in precarious positions are any more likely to take meaningful and effective action than people who aren't in the UK at the moment.

If you or Delroy can provide a graph maybe that sets out type of action and the people who have carried it, and the results of said action I cannot believe otherwise.

Proof! Without it, there's no way I could be right. Equally, there's no way that you and Delroy could be right, either.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Despite how it might be practiced in certain corners, really I see the concept of intersectionality being a way of highlighting how there are multiple oppressions at work on people all at the same time. That it's not enough to say "I'm a woman" and have that explain how you experience oppression. If we take class within the capitalist framework as the overarching system of oppression, intersectionality would simply tell us that within that framework you'll see different things work in different ways on different people depending on various categories that society has marked out. A working class recent immigrant to this country might face different institutionalised difficulties than someone else, for example. It's not about saying "because I'm brown skinned I have it worse than you" but rather, as I understand it, a way of trying to understand the different ways a whole range of oppressions and categories work to maintain the system of domination as a whole. It's not about pitting people against each other, but uncovering the ways in which all these oppressions work in unison (and try to pit people against each other, often).

That's how it should be in my (obviously worthless to some!) opinion, but is rarely how it is, given it's deployment as excuse and/or justification rather than as a lens through which to view how individuals can be subject to unique combinations of oppressive force, and how communities that are outwardly "homogeneous" are in actuality heterogeneous.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Look my point is that there is no evidence people in precarious positions are any more likely to take meaningful and effective action than people who aren't in the UK at the moment.

If you or Delroy can provide a graph maybe that sets out type of action and the people who have carried it, and the results of said action I cannot believe otherwise.

Proof-Nazi!

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Proof! Without it, there's no way I could be right. Equally, there's no way that you and Delroy could be right, either.

hang on I thought he was arguing the same as you??

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Proof-Nazi!

It's OK you're a man if you would like to make the same point as Cesare I will say "fair enough I see your point".

 

[cesare]

hang on I thought he was arguing the same as you??

Nah. #387 he introduced another "iat" the precariat and that the precariat wouldn't be as militant as the rest of the self employed.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Nah. #387 he introduced another "iat" the precariat and that the precariat wouldn't be as militant as the rest of the self employed.

Ah right - you're both wrong then.

Cheers.

 

[cesare]

Ah right - you're both wrong then.

Cheers.

A fiver (a whole five pounds!) on social unrest and increasing direct action coming via the likes of DPAC, UK Uncut etc rather than the unions?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

A fiver (a whole five pounds!) on social unrest and increasing direct action coming via the likes of DPAC, UK Uncut etc rather than the unions?

Most UK Uncut people I've met are certainly not in precarious jobs.

I wouldn't for a second claim social unrest and increasing direct action will come from the unions.

 

[cesare]

I wouldn't for a second claim social unrest and increasing direct action will come from the unions.

Now you and me agree on that, and I bet Delroy doesn't.

 

[twentythreedom]

Oops wrong thread

 

[8115]

Feminism isn't dead.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-20054049

It's only just getting started

 

[emanymton]

Most UK Uncut people I've met are certainly not in precarious jobs.

I wouldn't for a second claim social unrest and increasing direct action will come from the unions.

In November last year around 2 million union members went on strike, UK Uncut has got some way to go before it organises any direct action on that scale.

 

[cesare]

In November last year around 2 million union members went on strike, UK Uncut has got some way to go before it organises any direct action on that scale.

Did it work?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Feminism isn't dead.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-20054049

It's only just getting started

Yeah I read this story yesterday. It left me thinking about 'intersectionality' and 'perceived' class, wondering whether these women (on this scale) would have had to fight this case if they had been in supervisory/management roles etc.

 

[8115]

Yeah I read this story yesterday. It left me thinking about 'intersectionality' and 'perceived' class, wondering whether these women (on this scale) would have had to fight this case if they had been in supervisors/management roles etc.

I know. And I was questioning it last night, thinking to myself, are the jobs really equivalent? One of the women was on the radio, she said "they were hard jobs, we worked hard" or something like that, and I've done some catering and it *is* hard, especially getting up early. The women were earning about half what the men were earning. Amazing.

 

[cesare]

Yeah I read this story yesterday. It left me thinking about 'intersectionality' and 'perceived' class, wondering whether these women (on this scale) would have had to fight this case if they had been in supervisory/management roles etc.

There's a fairly decent article here about this today: http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfr...-equality-trap?cat=commentisfree&type=article