Another spoiled little man goes a US gun rampage (six people murdered in Santa Barbara)

[kenny g]

And he liked Phil Collins

 

[fishfinger]

We can have any discussion whatever; but we can't claim any knowledge of what drove this individual to do what he did. Maybe he was sexually and physically abused as a child. Maybe he suffered a brain injury in an accident. Maybe he suffered from one of the 'classic' psychiatric/personality disorders. Maybe he was a psychopath.

Maybe all of those things. Maybe none.

His six minute video doesn't really get into any of those things.

Maybe you should try watching some of his other videos. Maybe you might learn something. Maybe.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I think it has everything to do with the "culture" he (and we) was brought up in, whether any mental problems played a role or not I can't say but I wouldn't be surprised. But the steering force behind what he did was definitely cultural IMO.

There are huge problems with things that our culture teaches.

But millions of us all live in that culture, and don't commit mass murder. We are all exposed to the same cultural stimuli, but only a tiny fraction of people commit mass murder, thankfully.

That would seem to indicate that something more is going on with this tiny number of people who commit mass murder.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Not all men, not all men, not all men...

Heaven forfend this even stray near a discussion of the culture that breeds the views he held, regardless of whether they lead to murder or not. Nope. We shall not speak of that. That is not pertinent here. Not at all. He was a troubled person. That's the end of the discussion. Not all men...

I agree. But imo, all of those who go on killing rampages, fall within that subset.

Surely there's an element of both? The interraction of a corrosive culture that includes widespread and widely accepted misogyny with an individual whose experiences and psychological makeup make him react in such a way.

If it was just social misogyny then you'd expect this to be far more widespread than it is. Equally, if it was just mental illness/reactions to some kind of trauma/exclusion/ridicule you'd expect everyone who's experienced that (which is a significant proportion of the world's population) to do this kind of shit.

I'm confused by the 'not all men' bit - not sure what you're saying. That all men are somehow responsible? Or that all men could potentially do this kind of thing?

 

[Left]

He was on puahate which is a site for people who've tried PUA techniques without success. So we know he was sleazy, and it's no wonder no one wanted him.

He probably believed he was a beta male who was doomed to a lonely existence because chicks only like alphas.

This is not just a deranged loner, this is an example of how the whole PUA/MRA/nice guy mythology can fuck with people's heads and do real damage.




STOP FUCKING BLAMING THIS ON MENTAL ILLNESS. EVERY FUCKING TIME SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENS.!!!!!!!!!!!!11

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Maybe you should try watching some of his other videos. Maybe you might learn something. Maybe.

I don't have anything near perfect insight into my own motivations: do you?

 

[fishfinger]

I don't have anything near perfect insight into my own motivations: do you?

wtf?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'm confused by the 'not all men' bit - not sure what you're saying.

The facts here are about a male talking about not getting laid - and then committing mass murder. I made mention that many males are in his shoes vis a vis no sexual contact, but don't go on to commit mass murder.

But I expanded that to say that the principle applies across the board to all people: most people face tribulation and hardship in their lives, of whatever type - but they are able to manage it without committing mass murder.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Surely I can't be the only one who hasn't got a fucking scooby what 'PUA' means?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

wtf?

I don't have perfect insight into what motivates me at all times. I'd suggest that neither do you; nor most anybody.

Why should we believe that this killer has clear insight into his own motivation, such that his youtube videos will give us an accurate guide to his motivation?

 

[Idris2002]

Stabbing someome is much harder its an act of physical closenes and deliberatly killing someone with a knife is much harder than you'd think.
If you've ever held a loaded gun and looked at a crowd and thought I could make them all dead in a matter of seconds its scary, tbf mostly just thought why cant you all fuck off so I can go back to bed if i had enough energy for thought which wasnt that often
He probably used a pistol which in the army we mostly considered rather dangerous pointless toys as a rifle outranges them by 100s of metres but perfect for killing a few random people

Spoiler

 

[SpineyNorman]

The facts here are about a male talking about not getting laid - and then committing mass murder. I made mention that many males are in his shoes vis a vis no sexual contact, but don't go on to commit mass murder.

But I expanded that to say that the principle applies across the board to all people: most people face tribulation and hardship in their lives, of whatever type - but they are able to manage it without committing mass murder.

Sorry, should have made it clear that I was asking Vintage Paw what s/he meant - quoting both posts and asking below them wasn't the best way of getting that across.

 

[Idris2002]

Surely I can't be the only one who hasn't got a fucking scooby what 'PUA' means?

"Pick Up Artist". Arseholes who confuse being a creepy dick with being a smooth talking ladies' man.

 

[Dr_Herbz]

Surely I can't be the only one who hasn't got a fucking scooby what 'PUA' means?

I had to Google it... Pick Up Artist

 

[SpineyNorman]

The facts here are about a male talking about not getting laid - and then committing mass murder. I made mention that many males are in his shoes vis a vis no sexual contact, but don't go on to commit mass murder.

But I expanded that to say that the principle applies across the board to all people: most people face tribulation and hardship in their lives, of whatever type - but they are able to manage it without committing mass murder.

Sorry, should have made it clear that I was asking Vintage Paw what s/he meant - quoting both posts and asking below them wasn't the best way of getting that across.

 

[maomao]

He's a proper pathetic little turd isn't he.

Surely I can't be the only one who hasn't got a fucking scooby what 'PUA' means?

Pick Up Artist. Refers to sites that teach men (and presumably charge them, I have no idea) how to 'be successful' with women.

 

[fishfinger]

I don't have perfect insight into what motivates me at all times. I'd suggest that neither do you; nor most anybody.

Why should we believe that this killer has clear insight into his own motivation, such that his youtube videos will give us an accurate guide to his motivation?

I never suggested anything of the sort. However, to answer one of your baseless speculations, in one of his videos, he talks fondly of his childhood.

 

[SpineyNorman]

So basically this PUAhate place is where people who've been ripped off by the likes of Grant Shapps congregate?

And then, rather than reflecting on their own failings (ie. being the kind of sleazy twat who thinks being a 'pick up artist' is the route to healthy relationships with women) blame women both for their inability to get laid and the fact they were stupid enough to go to get ripped off by the likes of Grant Shapps?

 

[Vintage Paw]

PUA - pick-up artist. It's a thing. May or may not have ties in some cases to MRA (men's rights activists).

Not all men - it's also a thing. It's shorthand for a tired reaction that gets trundled out whenever women start talking about misogyny: "not all men do that!" as a way of not discussing the topic at hand and becoming defensive and deflecting the issue to something else. It's a common tactic, incredibly pervasive, and used as a way to shut down the debate. I used it here to illustrate the effect that diverting the subject away from a wider-ranging conversation about the culture that breeds his kind of mindset has.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I'm reminded of those cases where somebody snaps, kills a bunch of people and themselves - then a note is found blaming AC/DC or whatever; or else the police find a bunch of AC/DC records in their room. And next thing you know, the media is saying that there's a link between AC/DC and mass murder.

Once again: it's possible that the psychologically disturbed person listened to AC/DC and then decided to kill. But most people are able to listen to AC/DC without killing anyone as a result.

 

[dylanredefined]

So basically this PUAhate place is where people who've been ripped off by the likes of Grant Shapps congregate?

Supposedly full of creepy women haters who found out pick up artist tricks don't work. And rage against the world.

 

[SpineyNorman]

PUA - pick-up artist. It's a thing. May or may not have ties in some cases to MRA (men's rights activists).

Not all men - it's also a thing. It's shorthand for a tired reaction that gets trundled out whenever women start talking about misogyny: "not all men do that!" as a way of not discussion the topic at hand and becoming defensive and deflecting the issue to something else. It's a common tactic, incredibly pervasive, and used as a way to shut down the debate. I used it here to illustrate the effect that diverting the subject away from a wider-ranging conversation about the culture that breeds his kind of mindset has.

I don't think that's what JC3 was trying to do - I think we can talk about both without minimising the latter.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

in one of his videos, he talks fondly of his childhood.

I see. That means that he had a lovely childhood.

 

[Vintage Paw]

I don't think that's what JC3 was trying to do - I think we can talk about both without minimising the latter.

Yes, we can. That's the point. JC is implying we can't, because his misogyny is incidental and it's all down to the fact that he wasn't in full command of his mental faculties.

Edit: You edited while I was replying. My reply refers to your unedited post.

 

[fishfinger]

I see. That means that he had a lovely childhood.

Don't be a twat

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

That's the point. JC is implying we can't, because his misogyny is incidental and it's all down to the fact that he wasn't in full command of his mental faculties..

I'm not stopping you from talking about whatever you want.

I'm criticizing those who are making fun/abusing this person as stupid etc. I'm making that criticism because in my opinion, those who go on killing rampages have extreme emotional/psychological problems. That doesn't excuse or justify what they do in any way. But to me, abusing someone who has exhibited such extreme and tragic behavior, is similar to the visits that 18th century folk used to make to Bedlam in order to be amused by the antics of the 'lunatics'.

 

[Red Cat]

What are 'mental' problems if they're not problems with relationships, getting on with people, our relationship with the world, our sense of ourselves and others? Mental problems are all about relationships.

So this dichotomy that I see repeatedly on these threads between the social and a view of mental illness as meaning the person is somehow outside the social is a false one.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Yes, we can. That's the point. JC is implying we can't, because his misogyny is incidental and it's all down to the fact that he wasn't in full command of his mental faculties.

Edit: You edited while I was replying. My reply refers to your unedited post.

I think you and JC3 might be talking past each other to an extent - I'm confident he doesn't think it's just about mental illness (otherwise his first reply to me on this thread makes no sense) and, as you've just made clear, you don't think it's just about misogyny. After all, I think a decent case could be made for those Grant Shapps websites having contributed to his clearly unhealthy state of mind.

 

[SpineyNorman]

What are 'mental' problems if they're not problems with relationships, getting on with people, our relationship with the world, our sense of ourselves and others? Mental problems are all about relationships.

So this dichotomy that I see repeatedly on these threads between the social and a view of mental illness as meaning the person is somehow outside the social is a false one.

This - something similar has been going through my mind reading this thread and I've not been able to articulate it - thanks

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

What a cunt.