Another spoiled little man goes a US gun rampage (six people murdered in Santa Barbara)

[Yata]

self-indulgent derail: you still living at the same place Yata ? About time we went for a pint or summat, been way too long

there was more to the post originally something about him living in one of the most desirable places and how i could recognise the lights from a movie and how ungrateful he must be to have that life and still feel entitled to more but decided to just leave it at suburban commando. i mean its a depressing situation all around i thought maybe a hulk hogan reference might lighten the mood im gonna blame the booze for the moment

and yeah unfortunately still living in the same place hard to get another council flat these days those 1 bed flats very desirable i guess, been saying ill come out for a drink for what must be at least a year now so i suppose so at some point

 

[frogwoman]

The guy who sexually assaulted me had aspergers syndrome apparently. Out of all the many autistic people i have met, funny how only one was a rapist isn't it?

 

[frogwoman]

Quote from Southern Poverty Law Center


Are the people listed above all just mentally ill? Is the racism just a coincidence? What about the people with similar rhetoric who haven't (yet) killed someone?

They must all be mentally ill

 

[dylanredefined]

The same thing. Sexism isn't a us phenomenon only is it? I am saying that the social causes should not be ignored and this bloke just called a 'nutter' and the motivation behind his acts and their context written off

I think you can call him a nutter ,and, still address exactly what went wrong in his life to lead him to doing what he did.

 

[Dr_Herbz]

I get the impression this lad wanted a cheerleader type for a girlfriend and he hated them for choosing the football players over him.
His parents' wealth obviously dictated that those were the girls he deserved (in his mind), so why weren't they flocking to him with their legs spread wide?
He was under the impression that he was entitled to something he wasn't getting, which, as is fairly obvious, is something he wasn't used to, and he couldn't understand why it was happening to him, as he's probably gone through life getting everything he wanted.

 

[frogwoman]

Something like 2 people a week die of domestic violence. Guess all the murderers must be mentally ill.

 

[quimcunx]

Someone who does this is not someone enjoying good mental health. By definition something has gone very wrong. That doesn't mean anyone who has mental health issues is a potential killer. Neither good nor bad mental health happens in a vacuum. Societal ills of course play their part in bad mental health (and what is defined as bad mental health). If we are the sum of all our experience then his particular blend of the personal and societal (wherever you draw the line between them) led to this.

A different person in these circumstances would not do this and equally this person would not do this under different circumstances.

 

[frogwoman]

Someone who does this is not someone enjoying good mental health. By definition something has gone very wrong. That doesn't mean anyone who has mental health issues is a potential killer. Neither good nor bad mental health happens in a vacuum. Societal ills of course play their part. If we are the sum of all our experience then his particular blend of the personal and societal (wherever you draw the line between them) led to this.

A different person in these circumstances would not do this and equally this person would not do this under different circumstances.

A sexist atmosphere and the ideology that he bought into heavily influenced his decision, as did the fact that too many men (increasingly some women too) view sex as something they have a right to, the guy says that it is a crime that people are not having sex with him ffs.

 

[Miss Caphat]

The same thing. Sexism isn't a us phenomenon only is it? I am saying that the social causes should not be ignored and this bloke just called a 'nutter' and the motivation behind his acts and their context written off

fair enough then. I sometimes am a bit defensive against the armchair sociologists who "know" the US through tv etc and tend to ascribe a lot of negative unfounded shit to Americans as a whole. That kind of thinking disturbs me and frustrates me to no end. I'm not sure to what extent this is happening on this thread.

I just think that people can speculate all they want, but there's no real way of knowing unless you have a lot more evidence.
I guess I'm thinking about the Boston bombers & things like that. That was a very strange case in which we're still not quite sure what happened to make those young men who had it pretty good here by most accounts do what they did. Where did that hatred come from? Is it fair to blame things like that on society?
It does sort of seem like they were isolated, almost random cases. Which tbf does seem to be the conclusion we're often left with in mass murders like this.

 

[SpineyNorman]

there was more to the post originally something about him living in one of the most desirable places and how i could recognise the lights from a movie and how ungrateful he must be to have that life and still feel entitled to more but decided to just leave it at suburban commando. i mean its a depressing situation all around i thought maybe a hulk hogan reference might lighten the mood im gonna blame the booze for the moment

and yeah unfortunately still living in the same place hard to get another council flat these days those 1 bed flats very desirable i guess, been saying ill come out for a drink for what must be at least a year now so i suppose so at some point

Moving to Derby for at least a year in July so if you've not been over before I'll come and drag you to my leaving do.

 

[frogwoman]

fair enough then. I sometimes am a bit defensive against the armchair sociologists who "know" the US through tv etc and tend to ascribe a lot of negative unfounded shit to Americans as a whole. That kind of thinking disturbs me and frustrates me to no end. I'm not sure to what extent this is happening on this thread.

I just think that people can speculate all they want, but there's no real way of knowing unless you have a lot more evidence.
I guess I'm thinking about the Boston bombers & things like that. That was a very strange case in which we're still not quite sure what happened to make those young men who had it pretty good here by most accounts do what they did. Where did that hatred come from? Is it fair to blame things like that on society?
It does sort of seem like they were isolated, almost random cases. Which tbf does seem to be the conclusion we're often left with in mass murders like this.

I absolutely agree, 'stupid Americans' etc.

 

[Yata]

a few hours a month talking to a professional about his issues and not some loony pickup types and he might have had some sense talked into him.

i used to know someone who lived out there i remember once she told me her friend was feeling lonely and suicidal i suggested some kind of counselling and even googled some in the area he was in and it was like i had just labelled him norman bates she went off at me said all counsellors/therapists were scam artists and that he wasnt "crazy" he just needed some friends.
attitudes towards mental illness are pretty shyt everywhere but in the US they're really not on the ball with it at all if you seek help you must be one of those nutters they warn you about on fox news. as im sure theyre probably doing in full right now over this

 

[Miss Caphat]

I absolutely agree, 'stupid Americans' etc.

oh, and by the way, I know you're not one of those people!

 

[likesfish]

http://alphagameplan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/blue-pill-bodycount.html


His lack of "game" was the problem Because 19 year old girls want jerks

 

[Miss Caphat]

a few hours a month talking to a professional about his issues and not some loony pickup types and he might have had some sense talked into him.

i used to know someone who lived out there i remember once she told me her friend was feeling lonely and suicidal i suggested some kind of counselling and even googled some in the area he was in and it was like i had just labelled him norman bates she went off at me said all counsellors/therapists were scam artists and that he wasnt "crazy" he just needed some friends.
attitudes towards mental illness are pretty shyt everywhere but in the US they're really not on the ball with it at all if you seek help you must be one of those nutters they warn you about on fox news. as im sure theyre probably doing in full right now over this

uhhhh, no.
this is exactly what I'm talking about. our mental health system is far from perfect but that's a gross, unfounded opinion not based on anything factual

 

[frogwoman]

oh, and by the way, I know you're not one of those people!

No you're right, they're some outrageous stereotypes here about 'stupid, fat Americans' - often said without thinking by people who consider themselves on the left

 

[goldenecitrone]

I just think that people can speculate all they want, but there's no real way of knowing unless you have a lot more evidence.
I guess I'm thinking about the Boston bombers & things like that. That was a very strange case in which we're still not quite sure what happened to make those young men who had it pretty good here by most accounts do what they did. Where did that hatred come from? Is it fair to blame things like that on society?
It does sort of seem like they were isolated, almost random cases. Which tbf does seem to be the conclusion we're often left with in mass murders like this.

The evidence in this case is the video he posted in which he described his hatred for society and, in particular, women.

 

[Miss Caphat]

No you're right, they're some outrageous stereotypes here about 'stupid, fat Americans' - often said without thinking by people who consider themselves on the left

a lot of times it's far more sinister than that tbh.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

Just reading that this man had asperghers. ... I'm sure most will know that it is a complex brain disorder aligned to the autistic spectrum. Common characteristics include lack of empathy...very poor social skills and many more difficulties.
He will have had very limited understanding of relationships and how to engage with others. I work with autistic and asperghers teenagers. It is extremely difficult to lead them or train them to relate in a meaningful way with others. Others really are not viewed as anything more than something that will give them something in exchange for showing positive behaviours. ABA (Applied Behavioural Analysis) works to control their behaviours to a degree but it's always based on rewards and sanctions that you wouldn't need to constantly employ with a non autistic youth. It's an exhausting process that needs consistency and constancy from all persons that come in contact with the young person.
This is dreadful for the victims, their families and this young man's family. It's extremely sad.

 

[frogwoman]

a lot of times it's far more sinister than that tbh.

Yeah I know. A lot of the time there's something very nasty behind it.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Considering the facts of this case: thankfully for everyone, what happened is exceedingly rare. A Wikipedia list with the following features:

This list shall contain every case with at least one of the following features:

• Rampage killings with six or more dead (excluding the perpetrator)
• Rampage killings with at least four people killed and a double digit number of victims (dead plus injured)
• Rampage killings with at least a dozen victims (dead plus injured)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

The earliest instance on the list is 1879, so it covers at least 135 years.

Killings fitting the criteria have happened 106 times in Europe during the covered period; 119 times in the Americas; 132 times in Asia, etc. It seems unlikely that much can be extrapolated about the public at large from such a tiny subset of people.

 

[frogwoman]

Just reading that this man had asperghers. ... I'm sure most will know that it is a complex brain disorder aligned to the autistic spectrum. Common characteristics include lack of empathy...very poor social skills and many more difficulties.
He will have had very limited understanding of relationships and how to engage with others. I work with autistic and asperghers teenagers. It is extremely difficult to lead them or train them to relate in a meaningful way with others. Others really are not viewed as anything more than something that will give them something in exchange for showing positive behaviours. ABA (Applied Behavioural Analysis) works to control their behaviours to a degree but it's always based on rewards and sanctions that you wouldn't need to constantly employ with a non autistic youth. It's an exhausting process that needs consistency and constancy from all persons that come in contact with the young person.
This is dreadful for the victims, their families and this young man's family. It's extremely sad.

There are many people who have been diagnosed with aspergers and go on to live perfectly normal lives who are empathetic and so on, fuck I mean dyslexia and dyspraxia are increasingly seen as autistic spectrum disorders. I really don't think it has much to do with aspergers tbh.

 

[fishfinger]

Just reading that this man had asperghers. ...

There are several members of this forum with Aspergers, and other ASDs. As far as I know, none of us are self-entitled, mass murderers.

 

[moochedit]

didn't we have a weird poster like this on urban about a month ago who kept starting loads of threads complaining that he was a virgin until the mods banned him? it wasn't him was it?

 

[frogwoman]

There are several members of this forum with Aspergers, and other ASDs. As far as I know, none of us are self-entitled, mass murderers.

Well this is it. Imagine if we started diagnosing politicians etc with mental illnesses instead of looking at the social context of their actions.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

There are many people who have been diagnosed with aspergers and go on to live perfectly normal lives who are empathetic and so on, fuck I mean dyslexia and dyspraxia are increasingly seen as autistic spectrum disorders. I really don't think it has much to do with aspergers tbh.

I think you're mistaken linking dyslexia and dyspraxia with autistic spectrum disorder.
Yes there are autistics who can have other learning difficulties but the cause is not autism.
Sure...lots of people with asperghers live normal lives and develop relationships...but some dont and I suspect this young man's asperghers has impacted on his view of relationships.

 

[fishfinger]

Well this is it. Imagine if we started diagnosing politicians etc with mental illnesses instead of looking at the social context of their actions.

I wish I could like this post more than once.

 

[frogwoman]

Something like, for example, 'occupy paedophilia' in Russia, the gang of vigilantes who torture gay men with semi sanctioned support from the state, are they doing it because they're mentally ill, have aspergers or other such crap? Of course not, they live in a social context that allows them to do this and get away with it.

 

[skyscraper101]

a lot of times it's far more sinister than that tbh.

Yeah I know. A lot of the time there's something very nasty behind it.

It irks the shit out of me too. Sadly when a lot of stuff like this goes down in America, as it does, and is then followed by an inevitable commentary from a non-US perspective it can often get misconstrued as a continual comment/attack on 'Americans' which, when it does happen should be called out. And our Frogz is bang on with not just writing this off to being a 'nutter' or mental illness too.

 

[frogwoman]

Believe it or not sometimes people are just cunts. They don't always have to have something wrong with them.