Andy Coulson, the Met Police and Murdoch

[Teaboy]

It does smell bad. But Cameron is utterly inept.

For an ex pr man hes does strangly seem to be a walking pr disaster.

 

[Santino]

It almost as if being in PR was just a crappy excuse for a job he got through family connections while waiting for a safe Tory seat. Almost as if.

 

[Chris P Duck]

There an ex-NOTW journo now on the World at One (Radio 4) saying yeah, yeah we all hacked phones.. you had to get to get a story etc ... nothing wrong as they were up against a load of crooks.

He can't see what the prob is . Sorry mate it's illegal, that's the whole fucking point of all this. This bloke is basically spilling the beans and he seems to thick to realise it.

Listening to this Coulson is toast...

 

[Sgt Howie]

There an ex-NOTW journo now on the World at One (Radio 4) saying yeah, yeah we all hacked phones.. you had to get to get a story etc ... nothing wrong as they were up against a load of crooks.

He can't see what the prob is . Sorry mate it's illegal, that's the whole fucking point of all this. This bloke is basically spilling the beans and he seems to thick to realise it.

Well he's being more careful than you give him credit for, there's a public interest defence if a reporter does it to expose corruption or crime or whatever.

The point is that they were also doing it to catch out z-list celebs shagging other z-list celebs.

 

[London_Calling]

No he's not. Cameron chose Coulson knowing all about this affair, it's either a lack of judgment or complicity with wrong doing.

"this affair" was over. It had been investigated by the Parliamentary Committee (which reported in Dec), the police weren't interested and there was no evidence to counter Coulson's own evidence to the Committee that he knew nothing on the hacking.

Until someone signs a witness statement, there still isn't - it remains part of a New York newspaper punch up between Murdoch and another, with New Labour holding the coats of one side.

 

[cesare]

Motion

Privilege - To refer mobile phone hacking issue to the Committee on Standards and Privileges

They decided for referring the issue to the Committee - can of worms opened.

 

[Chris P Duck]

The point is that they were also doing it to catch out z-list celebs shagging other z-list celebs.

Still illegal though. Where do you draw the line trying to catch out z-list celebs shagging other z-list celebs ? How about MP's, royals, c-list celeb's, b-list celeb's etc.. are they game as well.

The game is up for Coulson and Camerons head in the sand defense.

 

[ferrelhadley]

For an ex pr man hes does strangly seem to be a walking pr disaster.

His government is starting to shape up more like a Major\ Brown than a Thatcher\ Blair. Gaff prone with a weak center. His team are going to have to toughen up pretty damn quick if they are going to appear to be any better than dead men walking in a years time.

 

[detective-boy]

Well he's being more careful than you give him credit for, there's a public interest defence if a reporter does it to expose corruption or crime or whatever.

There is no general "public interest" defence to a criminal offence. There is definitely no public interest defence to an offence of unlawful interception of communications under s.1 Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (which is the core criminal offence being alleged) that I am aware of.

 

[butchersapron]

You don't get to decide how defences choose to defend.

 

[ymu]

His government is starting to shape up more like a Major\ Brown than a Thatcher\ Blair. Gaff prone with a weak center. His team are going to have to toughen up pretty damn quick if they are going to appear to be any better than dead men walking in a years time.

It started well before they got into government. They were on for a landslide victory, virtually anointed by the media months before the election, and they managed to achieve ... a hung parliament. The Lib Dems didn't even increase their share of the vote to provide them with a reasonable excuse. The Tories are a complete disaster area full of complete and utter incompetents. A pineapple should have been able to beat Brown the way the media were beating him and Labour up.

 

[ferrelhadley]

They decided for referring the issue to the Committee - can of worms opened.

The debate sounded like sheep who had suddenly realised they had enough numbers to go after the wolves...... wonder if the courage will last past next week? Still there are some big scalps in fleet street there for the taking.

Any reasonable investigation is going to open up the tabloids to very extensive damages claims. This is starting to gain momentum.

 

[cesare]

The debate sounded like sheep who had suddenly realised they had enough numbers to go after the wolves...... wonder if the courage will last past next week? Still there are some big scalps in fleet street there for the taking.

Any reasonable investigation is going to open up the tabloids to very extensive damages claims. This is starting to gain momentum.

Who was the guy speaking immediately after the one next to Vaz, do you know?

 

[Teaboy]

"this affair" was over. It had been investigated by the Parliamentary Committee (which reported in Dec), the police weren't interested and there was no evidence to counter Coulson's own evidence to the Committee that he knew nothing on the hacking.

Until someone signs a witness statement, there still isn't - it remains part of a New York newspaper punch up between Murdoch and another, with New Labour holding the coats of one side.

You lib dems have really fallen into line behind Cameron.

It looks like a dodgy cover up last time, are you honestly asking us to accept that the editor knew nothing of what was going on?

 

[ferrelhadley]

Who was the guy speaking immediately after the one next to Vaz, do you know?

No idea, I remember Tom Watson waffling then Simon Hughs anecdotes and then Vaz mindnumbing congratulating everyone. Mind went a bit dead after that.

Just checked the Guardian blog, possibly Paul Farrely one on the Media comittee that investigated the original allegations.

 

[ymu]

Live blog of it here.

 

[London_Calling]

You lib dems have really fallen into line behind Cameron.

It looks like a dodgy cover up last time, are you honestly asking us to accept that the editor knew nothing of what was going on?

No, I'm stating facts.

"dodgy" isn't the standard of evidence normally relied on as the basis for criminal convictions or job sackings.

To repeat; where's the witness statement? Without that, this is just so much Internet guff again.

 

[cesare]

No idea, I remember Tom Watson waffling then Simon Hughs anecdotes and then Vaz mindnumbing congratulating everyone. Mind went a bit dead after that.

Just checked the Guardian blog, possibly Paul Farrely one on the Media comittee that investigated the original allegations.

Ah, yes, thanks for that - I think it was him. Spoke well, I thought.

Edit: Actually, it was Simon Hughes. Argh.

 

[ferrelhadley]

No, I'm stating facts.

"dodgy" isn't the standard of evidence normally relied on as the basis for criminal convictions or job sackings.

To repeat; where's the witness statement? Without that, this is just so much Internet guff again.

This is not at the "evidence to convict" stage, we are not even at the charging part of the investigation yet. It is about enough evidence to re-open the investigation. That has been achieved with some ease.

Never watch The Wire?

 

[Teaboy]

No, I'm stating facts.

"dodgy" isn't the standard of evidence normally relied on as the basis for criminal convictions or job sackings.

To repeat; where's the witness statement? Without that, this is just so much Intrnet guff again.

I'm not a prosecuter, I'm just some guy on a message board passing an observation that I'm 99% sure Coulson was up to his neck in it. What do you think?

 

[London_Calling]

This is not at the "evidence to convict" stage, we are not even at the charging part of the investigation yet. It is about enough evidence to re-open the investigation. That has been achieved with some ease.

Never watch The Wire?

Never heard of it.

There might now be sufficient evidence to fire it up again, as 'Yates of The Yard' has indicated - my point was there wasn't between Dec and now. There is absolutely nothing chargable yet though.

And "dodgy" is utterly meaningless.

 

[Sgt Howie]

Still illegal though. Where do you draw the line trying to catch out z-list celebs shagging other z-list celebs ? How about MP's, royals, c-list celeb's, b-list celeb's etc.. are they game as well.

The game is up for Coulson and Camerons head in the sand defense.

Er, yes, that was the point I was trying to make if you read my post.

 

[Teaboy]

Never heard of it.

There might now be sufficient evidence to fire it up again, as 'Yates of The Yard' has indicated - my point was there wasn't between Dec and now. There is absolutely nothing chargable yet though.

And "dodgy" is utterly meaningless.

Do you believe that the editor of the paper knew nothing of the illegal phone tapping that his underlings were using as sources for their stories?

In short do you believe Andy Coulson?

 

[London_Calling]

Don't be fucking retarded.

 

[Sgt Howie]

There is no general "public interest" defence to a criminal offence. There is definitely no public interest defence to an offence of unlawful interception of communications under s.1 Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (which is the core criminal offence being alleged) that I am aware of.

I was talking about the PCC code rather than the law although the latter remains ambiguous; the trial judge in the Goodman case made it fairly clear in his ruling that the nature of the "investigation" was extremely relevant. The info commissioner sought an amendment to RIPA so that a journalist would get a jail sentence if they breached the act without a public interest defence. The fact that News Corp, Associated, MGN etc protested and it was not activated (it still could be by a minister) could be used by the defence.

In practice it's extremely unlikely that the CPS would prosecute an English Woodward and Bernstein if they were cracking voicemails to get a legitimate story and even less likely that a jury would convict. The point is that the Screws was going on fishing expeditions and there was absolutely no public interest in the bulk of what they were publishing as a result.

 

[Teaboy]

Don't be fucking retarded.

Sorry, but why the distasteful abuse?

I asked you a direct question seen as you were being dismissive of me, I was just trying to get a straight answer as I didnt fully understand your position.

Your response, quite frankly is as unnesccesary as it is unpleasant.

edit: Actually do you know what, fuck it, seems pointless on a day like today. You can go on ignore, it also means I won't have to see the rubbish you post all over the cricket threads. Oh and nice choice of phrase by the way, really marks you as a person. Do you ever stop to think who that other person may be?

 

[ferrelhadley]

I do hope Piers Morgan is not too comfortable over at CNN. I have a feeling he will be needing a few return flights to London in the coming year.

Infact other than the Guardian, Indy, Times and Telegraph Id say fleet street editors are going to have to do a lot of fast talking. I am assuming the broadsheets general type of stories mean any hanky panky they have engaged in should have a reasonable chance of a public interest defence. Coulson has just been the lever to get this mess out in the open.

 

[London_Calling]

I'd agree with that; Coulson is a symptom currently dress as villian because it suits a number of vested and fringe interests.

 

[Sgt Howie]

I do hope Piers Morgan is not too comfortable over at CNN. I have a feeling he will be needing a few return flights to London in the coming year.

Infact other than the Guardian, Indy, Times and Telegraph Id say fleet street editors are going to have to do a lot of fast talking. I am assuming the broadsheets general type of stories mean any hanky panky they have engaged in should have a reasonable chance of a public interest defence. Coulson has just been the lever to get this mess out in the open.

What makes you assume that the broadsheets have clean hands? I doubt that when, say, David Brown went from the People to the Times or when Luke Harding went from the Mail to the Guardian they suddenly forgot all the shortcuts for beating the opposition to a story.

The broadsheets certainly don't restrict themselves to "general type of stories" as anyone who picks up a paper every morning will tell you.

 

[Teaboy]

I do hope Piers Morgan is not too comfortable over at CNN. I have a feeling he will be needing a few return flights to London in the coming year.

Old Piers is fine, he's virtually untouchable these days. If he can get away with the whole city slickers shit he can get away with anything.