...and Yemen!

[GroovySunday]

Apparently various cities in Yemen are being bombed. And we should be clear that the Houthis are in the right and the US is in the wrong and are breaking international law. Infact the Houthis are the ones trying to uphold international law. They are just doing what they can in response to the genocide in Gaza and desperately trying to get the US to pressure Israel to stop. In response to that it looks like Biden has decided to go ahead and green light an illegal war.

What are the Houthis supposed to do? Just sit back and do nothing while Israel continues massacres of civilians, including 12,000 kids?

 

[Pickman's model]

Apparently various cities in Yemen are being bombed. And we should be clear that the Houthis are in the right and the US is in the wrong and are breaking international law. Infact the Houthis are the ones trying uphold international law. They are just doing what they can in response to the genocide in Gaza and desperately trying to get the US to pressure Israel to stop. In response to that it looks like Biden has decided to go ahead and green light an illegal war.

What are the Houthis supposed to do? Just sit back and do nothing while Israel continues massacres of civilians, including 12,000 kids?

I am astonished by your tardy conversion to supporting the rules-based International system

 

[klang]

How little you actually know of the situation there. Indeed they started off as rebels but currently they control about half of Yemen including the capital Sana'a.

Note it was saleh who in the end encouraged / enabled the houthis.

 

[klang]

What are the Houthis supposed to do? Just sit back and do nothing while Israel continues massacres of civilians, including 12,000 kids?

The houthis don't have the greatest track record when it comes to human rights, civilians, and protecting the lives of children.

 

[teqniq]

Thanks klang I'm glad you've weighed in on this because you really know your stuff.

 

[NoXion]

Apparently various cities in Yemen are being bombed. And we should be clear that the Houthis are in the right and the US is in the wrong and are breaking international law. Infact the Houthis are the ones trying to uphold international law. They are just doing what they can in response to the genocide in Gaza and desperately trying to get the US to pressure Israel to stop. In response to that it looks like Biden has decided to go ahead and green light an illegal war.

What are the Houthis supposed to do? Just sit back and do nothing while Israel continues massacres of civilians, including 12,000 kids?

While I've no doubt that bombing Yemeni cities isn't going to do any good, I'm also wondering how launching missiles at shipping is supposed to help people in Palestine.

 

[PR1Berske]

From Amnesty International


"The Huthi de facto authorities continued to impose their mahram (male guardian) requirement, which bans women from travelling without a male guardian or evidence of their written approval, across governorates under Huthi control or to other areas of Yemen. From April, tightened Huthi restrictions increasingly hindered Yemeni women from working, especially those required to travel for their job.7 This had a direct impact on the access of Yemeni women and girls to healthcare and reproductive health rights as Yemeni women humanitarian workers increasingly struggled to conduct fieldwork in Huthi-controlled areas and were forced to cancel field visits and aid deliveries."

"Huthi de facto authorities raided at least six radio stations in Sana’a and shut them down. The owner of Sawt al-Yemen radio station appealed against the closure before the Journalism and Publishing Court in Sana’a and obtained a court order in July in favour of reopening the station. On 11 July, however, security forces raided and shut down the station again and confiscated its broadcasting devices.

The Huthi de facto authorities continued to imprison at least eight journalists, four of them on death row, following a grossly unfair trial in 2020. From May onwards, the appeal court in Sana’a repeatedly adjourned the appeal hearing of the four journalists on death row, Akram Al-Walidi, Abdelkhaleq Amran, Hareth Hamid and Tawfiq Al-Mansouri.2 In July, Tawfiq al-Mansouri was denied urgent medical treatment despite his critical health condition."

 

[PR1Berske]

From Human Rights Watch

"Houthi rockets, indiscriminate artillery attacks, and use of landmines have caused thousands of child casualties. The Houthis have attacked scores of schools and hospitals, used schools for military purposes, and blocked humanitarian assistance.

The Houthis have also recruited thousands of children as soldiers and sent them into battle. Child recruitment, especially by the Houthis, comprised the largest share of cases that the Justice4Yemen Pact verified in 2023. This is despite an action plan that the Houthis signed with the United Nations in April 2022 in which they pledged to end recruitment and use of children as soldiers, killing and maiming of children, and attacks against schools and hospital"s.

 

[teqniq]

Yup they are most definitely not the good guys.

 

[Pickman's model]

From Amnesty International


"The Huthi de facto authorities continued to impose their mahram (male guardian) requirement, which bans women from travelling without a male guardian or evidence of their written approval, across governorates under Huthi control or to other areas of Yemen. From April, tightened Huthi restrictions increasingly hindered Yemeni women from working, especially those required to travel for their job.7 This had a direct impact on the access of Yemeni women and girls to healthcare and reproductive health rights as Yemeni women humanitarian workers increasingly struggled to conduct fieldwork in Huthi-controlled areas and were forced to cancel field visits and aid deliveries."

"Huthi de facto authorities raided at least six radio stations in Sana’a and shut them down. The owner of Sawt al-Yemen radio station appealed against the closure before the Journalism and Publishing Court in Sana’a and obtained a court order in July in favour of reopening the station. On 11 July, however, security forces raided and shut down the station again and confiscated its broadcasting devices.

The Huthi de facto authorities continued to imprison at least eight journalists, four of them on death row, following a grossly unfair trial in 2020. From May onwards, the appeal court in Sana’a repeatedly adjourned the appeal hearing of the four journalists on death row, Akram Al-Walidi, Abdelkhaleq Amran, Hareth Hamid and Tawfiq Al-Mansouri.2 In July, Tawfiq al-Mansouri was denied urgent medical treatment despite his critical health condition."

From Human Rights Watch

"Houthi rockets, indiscriminate artillery attacks, and use of landmines have caused thousands of child casualties. The Houthis have attacked scores of schools and hospitals, used schools for military purposes, and blocked humanitarian assistance.

The Houthis have also recruited thousands of children as soldiers and sent them into battle. Child recruitment, especially by the Houthis, comprised the largest share of cases that the Justice4Yemen Pact verified in 2023. This is despite an action plan that the Houthis signed with the United Nations in April 2022 in which they pledged to end recruitment and use of children as soldiers, killing and maiming of children, and attacks against schools and hospital"s.

Thank God for Joe Biden and rishi sunak's principled and proportionate defence of international commerce

 

[tommers]

None of that is why we're bombing them.

 

[teqniq]

Thank God for Joe Biden and rishi sunak's principled and proportionate defence of international commerce

Paul Mason, just.....

 

[klang]

Thanks klang I'm glad you've weighed in on this because you really know your stuff.

This goes well beyond my understanding, knowledge and comprehension tbh.
But this is not a b/w situation with the houthis being the heroic counter guerilla force giving the west a run for its money.
Too complex and multifaceted is yemens history....

However, it has been said for decades that the west's policy towards yemen will have huge impacts on international affairs, so here we are.

Yemens strategicaly valuabe geographical location has always been its blessing and its curse....

 

[klang]

Paul Mason, just.....

View attachment 407892

You what?

 

[klang]

It still blows my mind how such a small rebel group who have been marginalised, isolated and shat on somewhere in the wildest north of yemen for decades could overrun a country full of battle-hardened tribes people, take power, and eventually play a huge part in international military policy...
I know there's a lot of history and explanation, from US to Iran to Saleh etc etc, but still, this is something quite unique to the spirit and sense of 'freedom' and 'getting on with it' to the people of Yemen....

 

[GroovySunday]

Yup they are most definitely not the good guys.

It's definitely not goodies and baddies, it never is really. But it should be clear that what the Houthis did was because of what Israel are doing in Gaza.

 

[klang]

It's definitely not goodies and baddies, it never is really. But it should be clear that what the Houthis did was because of what Israel are doing in Gaza.

Amongst many other reasons

 

[GroovySunday]

I am astonished by your tardy conversion to supporting the rules-based International system

I don't know what you're on about, or what you're on. But let's not derail the thread eh. There's a good lad.

 

[klang]

It's definitely not goodies and baddies, it never is really. But it should be clear that what the Houthis did was because of what Israel are doing in Gaza.

The destruction of judaism has been a long-term goal of the houthis long before the current gaza crisis.

 

[klang]

The destruction of judaism has been a long-term goal of the houthis long before the current gaza crisis.

....and that's not 'just' the destruction of Israel, its government, or Zionism. Its Judaism as a religion and culture.

 

[GroovySunday]

The destruction of judaism has been a long-term goal of the houthis long before the current gaza crisis.

I guess you regard them as the bad guys. I willl admit tho that you probably still know more about them than I do tbh.

 

[klang]

I guess you regard them as the bad guys. I willl admit tho that you probably still know more about them than I do tbh.

It was you who brought up the good guy / bad guy thing.

Do i want bombs in Yemen? No.

Do i want yemen to come to terms with its history, find peace, re-build, and play a little part in educating the world about culture, independence, politics, history and progress? Yes.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't know what you're on about, or what you're on. But let's not derail the thread eh. There's a good lad.

if you don't know what i'm on about you don't understand the post i responded to. the one you wrote. the one where you said the houthis were supporting international law. but that's no surprise as you usually come across as clueless. there's no need to derail the thread, simply for you to educate yourself. as i think i've said once or twice in the past.

 

[NoXion]

It's definitely not goodies and baddies, it never is really. But it should be clear that what the Houthis did was because of what Israel are doing in Gaza.

So if one of my neighbours down the road is beating his wife, I would be justified in shooting at the postman when he goes past my house?

 

[Pickman's model]

I guess you regard them as the bad guys. I willl admit tho that you probably still know more about them than I do tbh.

there are solitary hermits secluded in the fastnesses of the hindu kush with no access to news or information about the outside world who possess greater knowledge than you on this matter

 

[planetgeli]

What choice do they have? Those shipping routes being disrupted will cause massive pain for poor people around the world.

So, from the UK perspective, 4 Typhoons hitting 2 targets will produce a major positive result for the poor international working class? Nothing to do with protecting capitalism? Or flicking the Vs at Iran? It's just that Radio 4 were interviewing people who run businesses yesterday, while the voices of proletarianism were oddly left out of the debate?

And you think these 2 targets being hit, after years and years of Saudi bombing that has produced nothing, will tip the balance over the undoubted dangerous escalation this will bring?

FFS, even the Saudis don't want this to be happening.

 

[klang]

Do i want yemen to come to terms with its history, find peace, re-build, and play a little part in educating the world about culture, independence, politics, history and progress? Yes.

Neither houthi-style islamism nor western imperialism will help the people of yemen

 

[teqniq]

So, from the UK perspective, 4 Typhoons hitting 2 targets will produce a major positive result for the poor international working class? Nothing to do with protecting capitalism? Or flicking the Vs at Iran? It's just that Radio 4 were interviewing people who run businesses yesterday, while the voices of proletarianism were oddly left out of the debate?

And you think these 2 targets being hit, after years and years of Saudi bombing that has produced nothing, will tip the balance over the undoubted dangerous escalation this will bring?

FFS, even the Saudis don't want this to be happening.

The Saudis with all their nice shiny uk-provided and maintained toys including uncontested air superiority have been pretty much fought to a standstill by the Houthis.

 

[ska invita]

All so avoidable......just stop enabling genocide.... instead its expand war so as to carry on the genocide
Fucking never ending psychopaths

 

[klang]

I guess you regard them as the bad guys. I willl admit tho that you probably still know more about them than I do tbh.

It was you who brought up the good guy / bad guy thing.

Do i want bombs in Yemen? No.

Do i want yemen to come to terms with its history, find peace, re-build, and play a little part in educating the world about culture, independence, politics, history and progress? Yes.

To expand on this, GroovySunday -

Yemen is not just a nation of houthis, al qaida fighters and tribal savages.
It is also a nation of conscious proletarians, academics, historians, artists, musicians, lefties, scholars, activists, feminists, class warriors, ordinary people, and so on and so on....
It has a rich and colourful history of democracy, marxism, culuture, class struggles, autonomous thinking and questioning western imperialism and the status quo from a class-based angle.

These people have not disappeared and have not been muted by an ongoing war, starvation and distraction.

The rise of the houthis is a direct result of western policy to shape the middle east over the past few decades.

The crushing of the arab spring and therefor destrucing any meaningful progress in yemen was supported by all players, including saleh, iran, usa, houthis, islamists, etc etc.

If we want yemen to meddle in international politics and to take action against an ongoing genocide we must support the people who have been fighting and speaking out against capitalism and imperialism. These people exist in yemen.

To say 'at least the houthis are doing something' misses the point and can bare devastating consequences.

It also dismisses and silences the people who have been fighting for meaningful progress under the most dire circumstances