nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Paul Marsh said:
Very, very interesting but hardly surprising. There are a lot of otherwise sensible people out there who have been seduced by this charlatan. Let's have more exposés like this one.
Paul Marsh said:
paimei01 said:This kind of an "ignorant prat" :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/29/AR2005062902957.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/oct99/crash26.htm
This one is from 1999
EddyBlack said:We have repeated ignored warnings at the very top level (albeit with hindsight.
To add insult to injury we seemingly have this government using the terror threat to scare and distract the media every time revelations of its negligence, incompetence, lies etc. come into the news
The FAA said air traffic controllers lost radio contact with the plane at 9:44 a.m.
Pentagon officials said the military began its pursuit of the ghostly civilian aircraft at 10:08 a.m
Cheney is a liar. What about the story from 1999 ? Intercepting does not mean shooting down, and in 199 it was default procedureBut Vice President Cheney stated to Tim Russert on Meet the Press September 16, 2001, “the toughest decision was this question of whether we [the White House] would intercept incoming aircraft.”[3] He gave viewers the distinct impression that intercepting meant shooting down aircraft and that this decision was made at the Presidential level.
6 A.M.: WAR GAMES
Lt. Col. Dawne Deskins figured it would be a long day.
Sept. 11 was Day II of "Vigilant Guardian," an exercise that would pose an imaginary crisis to North American Air Defense outposts nationwide. The simulation would run all week, and Deskins, starting her 12-hour shift in the Operations Center as the NORAD unit's airborne control and warning officer, might find herself on the spot.
...paimei01 said:So what if the transponder was shut down ? Do you think you are the first in the world to think about this, and in 2001 everybody said "oh no they shut down the transponder, now nobody can find them, we did not think about this !!".
So, so many things. At least one of which i noted earlier.paimei01 said:What facts do I get wrong ? I cannot get it all wrong - you agree that 9/11 happened ?
paimei01 said:Its' not 80 minutes. On 9/11 there was not even a try by fighter planes to catch the hijackers.
The FAA said air traffic controllers lost radio contact with the plane at 9:44 a.m.
Pentagon officials said the military began its pursuit of the ghostly civilian aircraft at 10:08 a.m
So what if the transponder was shut down ? Do you think you are the first in the world to think about this, and in 2001 everybody said "oh no they shut down the transponder, now nobody can find them, we did not think about this !!"
08:37:52
BOSTON CENTER: Hi. Boston Center T.M.U. [Traffic Management Unit], we have a problem here. We have a hijacked aircraft headed towards New York, and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there, help us out.
POWELL: Is this real-world or exercise?
BOSTON CENTER: No, this is not an exercise, not a test.
08:39:58
WATSON: It’s the inbound to J.F.K.?
BOSTON CENTER: We—we don’t know.
WATSON: You don’t know where he is at all?
BOSTON CENTER: He’s being hijacked. The pilot’s having a hard time talking to the—I mean, we don’t know. We don’t know where he’s goin’. He’s heading towards Kennedy. He’s—like I said, he’s like 35 miles north of Kennedy now at 367 knots. We have no idea where he’s goin’ or what his intentions are.
WATSON: If you could please give us a call and let us know—you know any information, that’d be great.
BOSTON CENTER: Okay. Right now, I guess we’re trying to work on—I guess there’s been some threats in the cockpit. The pilot—
WATSON: There’s been what?! I’m sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Threat to the … ?
BOSTON CENTER: We’ll call you right back as soon as we know more info.
08:44:59
FOX: M.C.C. [Mission Crew Commander], I don’t know where I’m scrambling these guys to. I need a direction, a destination—
NASYPANY: O.K., I’m gonna give you the Z point [coordinate]. It’s just north of—New York City.
FOX: I got this lat long, 41-15, 74-36, or 73-46.
NASYPANY: Head ‘em in that direction.
FOX: Copy that.
08:51:11
ROUNTREE: A plane just hit the World Trade Center.
WATSON: What?
ROUNTREE: Was it a 737?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (background): Hit what?
WATSON: The World Trade Center—
DOOLEY: Who are you talking to? [Gasps.]
WATSON: Oh!
DOOLEY: Get—pass—pass it to them—
WATSON: Oh my God. Oh God. Oh my God.
ROUNTREE: Saw it on the news. It’s—a plane just crashed into the World Trade Center.
DOOLEY: Update New York! See if they lost altitude on that plane altogether.
Watson places a call to civilian controllers at New York Center.
WATSON: Yes, ma’am. Did you just hear the information regarding the World Trade Center?
NEW YORK CENTER: No.
WATSON: Being hit by an aircraft?
NEW YORK CENTER: I’m sorry?!
WATSON: Being hit by an aircraft.
NEW YORK CENTER: You’re kidding.
WATSON: It’s on the world news.
08:52:40
NASYPANY: Send ‘em to New York City still. Continue! Go!
NASYPANY: This is what I got. Possible news that a 737 just hit the World Trade Center. This is a real-world. And we’re trying to confirm this. Okay. Continue taking the fighters down to the New York City area, J.F.K. area, if you can. Make sure that the F.A.A. clears it— your route all the way through. Do what we gotta do, okay? Let’s press with this. It looks like this guy could have hit the World Trade Center.
08:55:18
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yeah, he crashed into the World Trade Center.
ROUNTREE: That is the aircraft that crashed into the World Trade Center?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yup. Disregard the—disregard the tail number [given earlier for American 11].
ROUNTREE: Disregard the tail number? He did crash into the World Trade Center?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): That’s—that’s what we believe, yes.
08:56:31
MALE NEADS TECH: I never heard them say American Airlines Flight 11 hit the World Trade Center. I heard it was a civilian aircraft.
Dooley, the ID desk’s master sergeant, takes the phone from Rountree to confirm for herself, and the story veers off course …
DOOLEY (to Boston): Master Sergeant Dooley here. We need to have—are you giving confirmation that American 11 was the one—
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): No, we’re not gonna confirm that at this time. We just know an aircraft crashed in and …
DOOLEY: You—are you—can you say—is anyone up there tracking primary on this guy still?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): No. The last [radar sighting] we have was about 15 miles east of J.F.K., or eight miles east of J.F.K. was our last primary hit. He did slow down in speed. The primary that we had, it slowed down below—around to 300 knots.
DOOLEY: And then you lost ‘em?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yeah, and then we lost ‘em.
09:03:17
ROUNTREE: They have a second possible hijack!
09:07:20
NASYPANY: Okay, Foxy. Plug in. I want to make sure this is on tape.… This is what—this is what I foresee that we probably need to do. We need to talk to F.A.A. We need to tell ‘em if this stuff’s gonna keep on going, we need to take those fighters on and then put ‘em over Manhattan, O.K.? That’s the best thing. That’s the best play right now. So, coordinate with the F.A.A. Tell ‘em if there’s more out there, which we don’t know, let’s get ‘em over Manhattan. At least we got some kinda play.
9:21:37
DOOLEY: Another hijack! It’s headed towards Washington!
NASYPANY: ****! Give me a location.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. Third aircraft—hijacked—heading toward Washington.
9:21:50
NASYPANY: O.K. American Airlines is still airborne—11, the first guy. He’s heading towards Washington. O.K., I think we need to scramble Langley right now. And I’m—I’m gonna take the fighters from Otis and try to chase this guy down if I can find him.
9:34:01
WASHINGTON CENTER: Now, let me tell you this. I—I'll—we've been looking. We're—also lost American 77—
WATSON: American 77?
DOOLEY: American 77's lost—
WATSON: Where was it proposed to head, sir?
WASHINGTON CENTER: Okay, he was going to L.A. also—
WATSON: From where, sir?
WASHINGTON CENTER: I think he was from Boston also. Now let me tell you this story here. Indianapolis Center was working this guy—
WATSON: What guy?
WASHINGTON CENTER: American 77, at flight level 3-5-0 [35,000 feet]. However, they lost radar with him. They lost contact with him. They lost everything. And they don't have any idea where he is or what happened.
9:34:12
NAVY A.T.C.: You’ve got [the fighters] moving east in airspace. Now you want ‘em to go to Baltimore?
HUCKABONE: Yes, sir. We’re not gonna take ‘em in Whiskey 386 [military training airspace over the ocean].
NAVY A.T.C.: O.K., once he goes to Baltimore, what are we supposed to do?
HUCKABONE: Have him contact us on auxiliary frequency 2-3-4 decimal 6. Instead of taking handoffs to us and us handing ‘em back, just tell Center they’ve got to go to Baltimore.
NAVY A.T.C.: All right, man. Stand by. We’ll get back to you.
CITINO: What do you mean, “We’ll get back to you”? Just do it!
HUCKABONE: I’m gonna choke that guy!
CITINO: Be very professional, Huck.
HUCKABONE: O.K.
CITINO: All right, Huck. Let’s get our act together here.
9:35:41
ROUNTREE: Huntress [call sign for NEADS] ID, Rountree, can I help you?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Latest report, [low-flying] aircraft six miles southeast of the White House.
ROUNTREE: Six miles southeast of the White House?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yup. East—he’s moving away?
ROUNTREE: Southeast from the White House.
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Air—aircraft is moving away.
ROUNTREE: Moving away from the White House?
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Yeah.…
ROUNTREE: Deviating away. You don’t have a type aircraft, you don’t know who he is—
BOSTON CENTER (Scoggins): Nothing, nothing. We’re over here in Boston so I have no clue. That—hopefully somebody in Washington would have better—information for you.
9:36:23
NASYPANY: O.K., Foxy [Major Fox, the Weapons Team head]. I got a aircraft six miles east of the White House! Get your fighters there as soon as possible!
MALE VOICE: That came from Boston?
HUCKABONE: We’re gonna turn and burn it—crank it up—
MALE TECH: Six miles!
HUCKABONE: All right, here we go. This is what we’re gonna do—
NASYPANY: We’ve got an aircraft deviating eight [sic] miles east of the White House right now.
FOX: Do you want us to declare A.F.I.O. [emergency military control of the fighters] and run ‘em straight in there?
NASYPANY: Take ‘em and run ‘em to the White House.
FOX: Go directly to Washington.
CITINO: We’re going direct D.C. with my guys [Langley fighters]? Okay. Okay.
HUCKABONE: Ma’am, we are going A.F.I.O. right now with Quit 2-5 [the Langley fighters]. They are going direct Washington.
NAVY A.T.C.: Quit 2-5, we’re handing ‘em off to Center right now.
HUCKABONE: Ma’am, we need to expedite that right now. We’ve gotta contact them on 2-3-4-6.
9:40:57
ROUNTREE: Delta 89, that’s the hijack. They think it’s possible hijack.
DOOLEY: ****!
ROUNTREE: South of Cleveland. We have a code on him now.
DOOLEY: Good. Pick it up! Find it!
MALE TECH: Delta what?
ROUNTREE: Eight nine—a Boeing 767.
DOOLEY: ****, another one—
9:54:54
SELFRIDGE FLIGHT OFFICER: Here—here’s what we can do. At a minimum, we can keep our guys airborne. I mean, they don’t have—they don’t have any guns or missiles or anything on board. But we—
NEADS TECH: It’s a presence, though.
10:07:08
PILOT: Baltimore is saying something about an aircraft over the White House. Any words?
CITINO: Negative. Stand by. Do you copy that, SD [Major Fox]? Center said there’s an aircraft over the White House. Any words?
FOX: M.C.C. [Nasypany], we’ve got an aircraft reported over the White House.
NASYPANY: Intercept!
FOX: Intercept!
NASYPANY: Intercept and divert that aircraft away from there.
CITINO: Quit 2-5 [Langley fighters], mission is intercept aircraft over White House. Use F.A.A. for guidance.
FOX: Divert the aircraft away from the White House. Intercept and divert it.
CITINO: Quit 2-5, divert the aircraft from the White House.
PILOT: Divert the aircraft.…
10:07:16
CLEVELAND CENTER: We got a United 93 out here. Are you aware of that?
WATSON: United 93?
CLEVELAND CENTER: That has a bomb on board.
WATSON: A bomb on board?! And this is confirmed? You have a [beacon code], sir?
CLEVELAND CENTER: No, we lost his transponder.
The information is shouted out to Nasypany.
NASYPANY: Gimme the call sign. Gimme the whole nine yards.… Let’s get some info, real quick. They got a bomb?
10:10:31
NASYPANY (to floor): Negative. Negative clearance to shoot.… Goddammit!…
FOX: I’m not really worried about code words at this point.
NASYPANY: **** the code words. That’s perishable information. Negative clearance to fire. ID. Type. Tail.
CITINO: Quit 2-6, Huntress. How far is the—suspect aircraft?
PILOT: Standby. Standby.… About 15 miles, Huntress.
CITINO: Huntress copies two-two miles.
PILOT: 15 miles, Huntress.
CITINO: 15 miles. One-five … noise level please … It’s got to be low. Quit 2-6, when able say altitude of the aircraft.… Did we get a Z-track [coordinates] up for the White House?
HUCKABONE: They’re workin’ on it.
CITINO: Okay. Hey, what’s this Bravo 0-0-5 [unidentified target]?
FOX: We’re trying to get the Z-point. We’re trying to find it.
HUCKABONE: I don’t even know where the White House is.
CITINO: Whatever it is, it’s very low. It’s probably a helicopter.
MALE VOICE: It’s probably the helicopter you’re watching there.… There’s probably one flying over the [Pentagon].
MALE VOICE: It’s probably the smoke. The building’s smoked. [They’re seeing more pictures of the flaming Pentagon on CNN.]
HUCKABONE: Holy ****.… Holy **** …
CITINO: Yes. We saw that. O.K.—let’s watch our guys, Huck. Not the TV.… Quit 2-6, status? SD, they’re too low. I can’t talk to ‘em. They’re too low. I can’t talk to ‘em.
FOX: Negative clearance to fire.
CITINO: O.K. I told ‘em mission is ID and that was it.
FOX: Do whatever you need to divert. They are not cleared to fire.
HUCKABONE: It was our guys [the fighters from Langley].
CITINO: Yup. It was our guys they saw. It was our guys they saw—Center saw.
FOX: New York did the same thing….
CITINO: O.K., Huck. That was cool. We intercepted our own guys.
10:15:00
WATSON: United nine three, have you got information on that yet?
WASHINGTON CENTER: Yeah, he’s down.
WATSON: What—he’s down?
WASHINGTON CENTER: Yes.
WATSON: When did he land? Because we have confirmation—
WASHINGTON CENTER: He did—he did—he did not land.
Here, on the tape, you hear the air rush out of Watson’s voice.
WATSON: Oh, he’s down down?
MALE VOICE: Yes. Yeah, somewhere up northeast of Camp David.
WATSON: Northeast of Camp David.
WASHINGTON CENTER: That’s the—that’s the last report. They don’t know exactly where
10:15:30
POWELL: Southeast just called. There’s another possible hijack in our area.…
NASYPANY: All right. **** …
No I am not Azrael23.
Additionally, in the Stewart case the first planes to intercept the aircraft were ALREADY in the air on a training exercise.8den said:Hey and that plane was flying on a straight course, with transponder on, and autopilot working, in South fucking Dakota mind you.
On the other hand the 911 hijackers deviated from course, switched off their plane's transponders, and were flying over the Eastern Seaboard of the US the busiest piece of air space on the planet.
How long did it take for the jets to Scramble in 1999? 80 minutes.
How long before the hijackers crashed or hit their targets on September 11th? Less than 80 minutes in every case.
So basically you're saying thats its suspicious that the airforce didn't respond even faster than the incident in '99 which was a best case scenario for a unresponsive plane.
Really? Numbnuts, Really?
If you want me to link to the exact NORAD timeline, I fucking will. But come up with some better shit than Payne Steward first.
Incidentally taking post Sept 11th examples is fucking retarded. Of course the US will react differently to a plane over DC post 911.
Finally, who exactly would you be satisfied with the buck stopping with? Bush? Cheney? Some NORAD radar operator?
On and actually fin-a-fucking-ly. Would you care to explain which "wargames" left the US undefended on 911?
So the Bush administration are a bunch of lying deceitful cunts, who use the threat of terrorism as a puppet show to distract from other domestic and foreign policy failures. Gosh let me pick my fucking jaw up from the floor. Do you have another point Eddy? Or are you going to next demonstrate that the sky is blue? Or that puppies and kittens are fucking cute. Seriously Eddie what's your sodding point?
beesonthewhatnow said:Nicely done there 8den, even if it is like shooting very dumb fish in a very small barrel
I really should get around to registering over there....8den said:the JREF forum.
beesonthewhatnow said:I really should get around to registering over there....
Armistead Maupin in 1987 said:'He headed down the River Road towards Hillbillies, immersing himself in the sights and sounds of the frontier community coming to life under the giant trees. The very name of the camps triggered half a lifetime of memories: Dog House, Toyland, Pig n' Whistle, Sons of Toil...
Someone was playing a piano - 'These Foolish Things' - on the ridge to the left. To the right was a Dixieland band and a chorus practicing a classical number he didn't recognise. Their vioces trailed heavenward, hovering like woodsmoke in the slanting afternoon light.
As night fell, he assembled with the others at the Owl Shrine for the Cremation of Care. The already drunken crowd fell silent as the lakeside organist began to play the dirge and the High Priest summoned his acolytes. Then the barge materialised, poled silently across the lake, bearing the palled figure of Care.
When the barge reached the shrine, two acolytes removed the pall, revealing the macarbre effigy with its pairet mache mask. the effigy was dutifully placed upon the pyre, but the incineration was halted, as always, by sinister, electronically enhanced laughter from the hillside.
All eyes turned towards the ridge as a puff of smoke and a flash of light revealed the presence of the ghostly white Tree of Care. From deep within the tree thundered the voice of Care itself:
'Fools, fools, fools, when will ye learn that me ye cannot slay? Year after year ye burn me in this Grove, lifting your silly shouts of triumph to the pitying stars. But when ye turn your feet again to the marketplace, am I not waiting for ye as of old? Fools, fools, fools, to dream ye conquer Care!'
The High Priest answered:
'Year after year, within this happy Grove, our fellowship has damned thee for a space, and thy malevolence that would pursue us has lost its power beneath these friendly trees. So shall we burn thee once again this night, and in the flames that eat thine effigy we'll read the sign that, once again, midsummer sets us free'
Then, after lighting their torches at the gas-jet altar fire, the acolytes descended upon the pyre and set Care aflame, piercing the night with shouts of ecstasy. The band broke into 'Hot Time in the Old Town Tonight'.
Booter smiled, feeling the old magic, then withdrew into the darkness as fireworks burst in the trees above the lake.
Who was told what by whom exactly? Where are these people?paimei01 said:He also says about some people who were told not to go to work that day.
editor said:Who was told what by whom exactly? Where are these people?
Real names, testimony, credible evidence and non-loon sources or fuck right off.
19:45 My mental health is shot, I can't remember yesterday some days.
20:40 Everywhere I see I see 911, On the clock 911 the house where I grew up 199
That would be all those firefighters whose statements are at:paimei01 said:http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=53815767687186956&hl=en
A firefighter tells the story of what he did on 9/11.
"Tower one was coming down from the interior on us"
"Inside structure was just disintegrating, we were like : How is this happening when the plane was up fifty more stories and the stairway is collapsing on us ?"
"Explosions , fires everywhere "
"It wasn't a F14 shooting rockets at us"
"We got down to the third floor and that's where the stairway collapsed on us
and we had to dig all the way out, now the building is coming down we can't see nothing, once again, saying our prayers, you know the show is over here now, this is it.
And with that, all of the sudden, we're looking for another stairwell, me and the lieutenant open a door, we find a body in this closet, we were like : what the heck is that, where did this come from, what's going on here ?, something crazy is going on.
We got our way out off the third stall and that's where the maintenance fellow with a little flash light saved our lives , he was pointing over at us , if it wasn't for him we never would have found another stairwell, the building would have collapsed, William Rodriguez, he saved our lives"
"People coming down the stairs from all different stories , burnt"
"We got down to the lobby and everything was blown up, exploded"
He also says about some people who were told not to go to work that day
Of course no eye witness testified for the 9/11 "investigation".