Alcohol: regulatory watch

[Flavour]

I thought I'd start a thread about the creeping, but constant social shift which is, perhaps, seeing alcohol go the same way as tobacco, albeit much more slowly and less evenly. That is, through government/institutional demonization and restriction, which perhaps already reflects a wider, spontaneous social shift away from drinking, and seeks to exacerbate it.

I was inspired by this news: What's behind Canada's drastic new alcohol guidance

And to a lesser extent this: Anger brews in Italy over Ireland’s plans for alcohol health warnings

Stuff like the minimum unit price in Scotland, health warnings being made more visible, increases in age limits, bans on advertising or other restrictions... let's collect it here. Because, as crazy as it may sound now with the high streets still full of drinkers every weekend, that may one day be a thing of the past.

Things this thread isn't about:
1. Your personal stories of alcoholism or giving up the booze
2. Alcohol laws in traditionally teetotal cultures (e.g. the Muslim world and much of India)

 

[bmd]

Cool. Can we talk about the price of alcoholic drinks with no alcohol in?

 

[mojo pixy]

I'm going to add this in here too - Alcohol

 

[Flavour]

Cool. Can we talk about the price of alcoholic drinks with no alcohol in?

The rise of non-alcoholic versions of alcoholic beverages is tangentially relevant I guess, sure.

I mean, zero % beer has been around for a very long time, but alcohol-free wine (i.e. grape juice) and now even alcohol-free gin have perplexed me no end. I think, however, that the relative expense of these drinks is not somehow a temptation to choose them over the alcoholic versions of the same. The only people who buy them are committed non-drinkers.

 

[mwgdrwg]

I have certainly noticed an increase in this propaganda...

Cost of living: The young people saving money by going sober - Cost of living: The young people saving money by going sober
Cost of Living: 'I've given up booze and Netflix to cut costs, but I've got hope' - Cost of Living: 'I've given up booze and Netflix to cut costs, but I've got hope'

etc. etc. etc.

 

[bmd]

The rise of non-alcoholic versions of alcoholic beverages is tangentially relevant I guess, sure.

I mean, zero % beer has been around for a very long time, but alcohol-free wine (i.e. grape juice) and now even alcohol-free gin have perplexed me no end. I think, however, that the relative expense of these drinks is not somehow a temptation to choose them over the alcoholic versions of the same. The only people who buy them are committed non-drinkers.

Dry January is now a marketing tool, so whilst I agree that 0% beer is nothing new, the alcohol-free market has become accepted by sections of society and fully embraced by the alcohol industry. I prefer a nice glass of Robinson's myself, with it being 0%, refreshing and less than ridiculously over-priced. 0% artisan gin, anyone?

 

[Diamond]

I used to drink and gave up because it got out of hand but I don't welcome these new developments one bit. There does seem to be a pretty determined assault on drinking culture by the state in various places. And there's a real sense of these people just getting the calculation completely wrong.

If you only look at the risks and fail to consider the intangible benefits then you come away with a very pinched, puritanical view of the world that seems utterly joyless to me.

I wonder what's up with public health stuff in Canada - their euthanisia/MAiD stuff seems to be being led by the wrong priorities as well.

 

[Flavour]

It's always the "white" British colonies (is there a better collective name to group together Canada, Australia and NZ?) that seem to be at the vanguard of this sort of nanny state shit, innit

 

[NoXion]

I find it weird that this shift is happening when the younger generations are drinking less than their predecessors. What's up with that?

 

[DotCommunist]

You'll never regulate away the 'casketeer' or Real Ale Twat. You'd have to take the Bishop's Finger from his cold dead hands.

I did feel a bit nanny state when I saw dragon soup the other day. Its a massive can of energy drink with a 7% abv, danger danger will robinson. Its buckfast all over again.

 

[platinumsage]

I mean, zero % beer has been around for a very long time, but alcohol-free wine (i.e. grape juice) and now even alcohol-free gin have perplexed me no end. I think, however, that the relative expense of these drinks is not somehow a temptation to choose them over the alcoholic versions of the same. The only people who buy them are committed non-drinkers.

Alcohol-free wine is not “grape juice”, it’s wine that has been created in the usual way and then had its alcohol removed.

 

[bmd]

New govt advice being punted via GP surgeries.

 

[bmd]

Alcohol-free wine is not “grape juice”, it’s wine that has been created in the usual way and then had its alcohol removed.

What are your thoughts on it? A cynical way to get more people involved with alcohol or just a lovely way to enjoy the taste of your favourite beverage?

 

[savoloysam]

New govt advice being punted via GP surgeries.

Only English and Polish languages? Great stereotyping.

 

[platinumsage]

What are your thoughts on it? A cynical way to get more people involved with alcohol or just a lovely way to enjoy the taste of your favourite beverage?

I’ve only tried red but my thoughts are that it tastes nothing like wine and exactly like vinegar, so it’s certainly not a gateway drug to booze. Mixed with the right proportion of blackcurrant squash it’s certainly drinkable though, and gives you the antioxidant health benefits of red wine without the downside, and makes a better accompaniment to a meal than a simple sweet juice drink.

 

[Flavour]

Wine is fermented grape juice. The alcohol comes from the fermentation process. "Removing the alcohol" through some chemical process -- why not just skip the palava and pay the price of normal grape juice, given that they are, to all effects, essentially the same thing?

Alcohol-free wine is not “grape juice”, it’s wine that has been created in the usual way and then had its alcohol removed.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

What are your thoughts on it? A cynical way to get more people involved with alcohol or just a lovely way to enjoy the taste of your favourite beverage?

Alcohol companies have obviously seen the massive trend towards alcohol-free drinks and are hoping to keep their share of customers.
Some alcohol-free beers are quite nice; the few alcohol-free wines I've tried are absolute shit.

 

[Pickman's model]

I thought I'd start a thread about the creeping, but constant social shift which is, perhaps, seeing alcohol go the same way as tobacco, albeit much more slowly and less evenly. That is, through government/institutional demonization and restriction, which perhaps already reflects a wider, spontaneous social shift away from drinking, and seeks to exacerbate it.

I was inspired by this news: What's behind Canada's drastic new alcohol guidance

And to a lesser extent this: Anger brews in Italy over Ireland’s plans for alcohol health warnings

Stuff like the minimum unit price in Scotland, health warnings being made more visible, increases in age limits, bans on advertising or other restrictions... let's collect it here. Because, as crazy as it may sound now with the high streets still full of drinkers every weekend, that may one day be a thing of the past.

Things this thread isn't about:
1. Your personal stories of alcoholism or giving up the booze
2. Alcohol laws in traditionally teetotal cultures (e.g. the Muslim world and much of India)

You forgot 3. A comparison of alcohol-free drinks

 

[BristolEcho]

I know you said this isn't the thread for it, but as I've been trying to reduce/limit my alcohol use I've found the selection of alcohol and low ABV beers to be good. I don't drink many nights, but when I do it's always to excess.

I had a few non-alcohol Guinness at home the other night and a couple of low ABV Shandy's and it was good! I'm still going to use other substances as they just don't cause me the same issues, but hoping that switching to alcohol free more when out will be better for my health. Agree the price is a bit of a piss take, but not surprising.

I'm completely anti-prohibition, but alcohol has been over marketed just as Tobacco was. I think people being aware of what they are drinking, and how to reduce the risks is a good thing.

 

[Rimbaud]

What's behind Canada's drastic new alcohol guidance

A Canadian health agency has backed a report saying that even a little alcohol is too much alcohol.

www.bbc.com

Maximum two drinks a week, what a load of crap.

I don't see any evidence whatsoever that moderate drinking - as opposed to heavy drinking - has a measurable effect on life expectancy.

I remember the previous study which found that moderate drinkers live longer than teetotalers, and that has been revised by saying that teetotalers are ex-heavy drinkers with health problems which effected the study. But if there is that much noise in the results - and no study has been produced to find that teetotalers live longer - that it can hardly have a significant effect.

I also note that countries where regular drinking in moderation is the norm have fairly long life expectancy. There's only 2 years difference in life expectancy between Japan (longest life expectancy) and France. If moderate drinking was as bad a factor as diet, access to healthcare, and lifestyle, then surely we'd see a difference at least as significant as the gap between moderate drinking France and the relatively sober US, which have a 5 year gap in life expectancy.

 

[Idaho]

We should be more down on alcohol. It's really bad for individual and societal health. As a long term illegal drug user, I'm used to my preferred intoxicant being vilified and subject to endless scare stories, while TV and radio presenters are constantly joshing about their hangovers or how X will celebrate later by getting pissed.

I'm not saying anything should be banned, just that the withdrawal of universal praise for booze may seem like oppression for those who expect their drug of choice to be venerated.

 

[skyscraper101]

I haven't seen what the designs are, but the Guardian describes the proposal from Ireland to be "stark health warning labels" on wine. If true and its anything like the cigarette style ones then that would be totally OTT.

 

[bmd]

Alcohol companies have obviously seen the massive trend towards alcohol-free drinks and are hoping to keep their share of customers.
Some alcohol-free beers are quite nice; the few alcohol-free wines I've tried are absolute shit.

Yeah everyone I've talked to about it with maybe a couple of exceptions are very positive about whatever they have chosen to drink that has had the alcohol removed. My gf loves it. I cannot see it as anything other than a gateway to alcohol. I do wonder what alcohol sales would have looked like through the centuries if other drugs had been available. Imagine going down the offy for a couple of edibles and being able to choose exactly what strength and kind you wanted?

I know you said this isn't the thread for it, but as I've been trying to reduce/limit my alcohol use I've found the selection of alcohol and low ABV beers to be good. I don't drink many nights, but when I do it's always to excess.

I had a few non-alcohol Guinness at home the other night and a couple of low ABV Shandy's and it was good! I'm still going to use other substances as they just don't cause me the same issues, but hoping that switching to alcohol free more when out will be better for my health. Agree the price is a bit of a piss take, but not surprising.

I'm completely anti-prohibition, but alcohol has been over marketed just as Tobacco was. I think people being aware of what they are drinking, and how to reduce the risks is a good thing.

I'm not sure how we talk about alcohol without talking about the issues that can come with it. Really happy to hear that you're looking at alternatives. Takes a lot of strength.

 

[hegley]

I haven't seen what the designs are, but the Guardian describes the proposal from Ireland to be "stark health warning labels" on wine. If true and its anything like the cigarette style ones then that would be totally OTT.

Why would it be OTT? Apart from ruining the aesthetics.

 

[bmd]

I haven't seen what the designs are, but the Guardian describes the proposal from Ireland to be "stark health warning labels" on wine. If true and its anything like the cigarette style ones then that would be totally OTT.

Why would it be OTT? I think that alcohol causes a lot of misery. As much as cigarettes. More, in fact. You ever been beaten up by a heavy smoker or had your night out interrrupted by one? Lighting a cigarette whilst driving is problematic but driving whilst intoxicated by alcohol is another level.

 

[Rimbaud]

We should be more down on alcohol. It's really bad for individual and societal health. As a long term illegal drug user, I'm used to my preferred intoxicant being vilified and subject to endless scare stories, while TV and radio presenters are constantly joshing about their hangovers or how X will celebrate later by getting pissed.

I'm not saying anything should be banned, just that the withdrawal of universal praise for booze may seem like oppression for those who expect their drug of choice to be venerated.

I agree to some extent - drinking should not be the default social activity that it is in this country. However moving against pubs without really creating any alternative places to socialise feels like part of a trend of greater atomisation. Young people drink less but also spend less time socialising face to face - and loneliness and social isolation are far more dangerous to your health than moderate alcohol use.

 

[skyscraper101]

Why would it be OTT? Apart from ruining the aesthetics.

Because it's putting wine in the same danger zone as cigs which obviously have no health benefit and only health detriment.

Wine can obviously be abused like anything else including food, soft drinks etc. But sticking a health warning label akin to a packet of fags is a bit OTT and will ruin the aesthetic of bottle displays in bars, and restaurants too. Again I haven't seen the design proposals, but 'stark' suggests something along those lines.

 

[Raheem]

Fast-moving thread. Think we have found an issue close to Urban's heart.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Yeah everyone I've talked to about it with maybe a couple of exceptions are very positive about whatever they have chosen to drink that has had the alcohol removed. My gf loves it. I cannot see it as anything other than a gateway to alcohol.

A gateway to alcohol? I've never thought of them like that. People drink alcohol-free beers because they are giving up or cutting down on alcohol, but still want to join in with their friends at the pub.

 

[platinumsage]

Wine is fermented grape juice. The alcohol comes from the fermentation process. "Removing the alcohol" through some chemical process -- why not just skip the palava and pay the price of normal grape juice, given that they are, to all effects, essentially the same thing?

Because they're entirely different things. Does wine taste anything like grape juice plus ethanol? Does Roquefort with the mold veins removed taste like milk? Does cold toast taste like untoasted bread?