Afghanistan: Mission Accomplished

[SpookyFrank]

The Taliban never got much support from America

You say that but if they aren't already then they'll soon be in posession of a fucking shit ton of hastily abandoned US weapons.

 

[Pickman's model]

You say that but if they aren't already they'll soon be in posession of a fucking shit ton of hastily abandoned US weapons.

Not sure those weapons' intended destination was the Taliban

 

[SpookyFrank]

Not sure those weapons' intended destination was the Taliban

Looking at the last 20 years of US policy in Afghanistan I'm not sure I agree.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Perhaps you could show where mullah gerry points to biblical justification for ira activities

Beard.

 

[kebabking]

The Americans have spent much of the last month blowing up stuff they'd given to the Afghans...

Interestingly, US direct air support to the Afghan forces is heavier now than its been for years - which shows, imv, the importance of political/moral/military momentum: once they said they were off and leaving the Afghan state to it the momentum belonged to the Taliban, and it doesn't matter (in eventual outcome terms) how much support the US now decides to dish out...

 

[Sprocket.]

The Taliban never got much support from America

Not intentional anyway.

 

[Ax^]

Not really on a wind up, it does seem there are a number of similarities between two groups using the cover of religion combined with violence to exert power over their communities, dictating what are acceptable behaviours, pastimes etc.

tbf the Taliban are more similar to Oliver Cromwell and his puritain army than the ira

 

[tony.c]

The Taliban never got much support from America

Their predecessors, the mujahadeen, which the Taliban was part of, did get training and weapons from the US when they were fighting the Russians.

 

[Pickman's model]

Their predecessors, the mujahadeen, which the Taliban was part of, did get training and weapons from the US when they were fighting the Russians.

How were the Taliban part of the us-supported Mujahedeen when they weren't founded until five years after the Soviet Union left Afghanistan?

 

[tony.c]

How were the Taliban part of the us-supported Mujahedeen when they weren't founded until five years after the Soviet Union left Afghanistan?

Their predecessors were one of the many disparate groups which made up the mujahideen.

 

[krtek a houby]

Not really on a wind up, it does seem there are a number of similarities between two groups using the cover of religion combined with violence to exert power over their communities, dictating what are acceptable behaviours, pastimes etc.

The IRA may have had religious members, sure. But it wasn't about using religion as a cover to free the people from the legacy of British colonial terrorism.

If you like, you could say the similarity lies in the ultimate conclusion that the British imperialists/colonial terrorists will always be turfed out of the countries they interfere in.

 

[bimble]

Is this victory being won by a whole new generation of taliban fighters, young men who joined over these 20 years?

 

[Pickman's model]

The IRA may have had religious members, sure. But it wasn't about using religion as a cover to free the people from the legacy of British colonial terrorism.

If you like, you could say the similarity lies in the ultimate conclusion that the British imperialists/colonial terrorists will always be turfed out of the countries they interfere in.

Compare the Irish and British national anthems, the first doesn't mention god once, while god is at the heart of the latter

The only rebel songs I can think of mentioning god are God save Ireland and that one by the Wolfe Tones about Monsignor horan

 

[Pickman's model]

Is this victory being won by a whole new generation of taliban fighters, young men who joined over these 20 years?

They should use the auld pepsi slogan, 'taliban, the choice of a new generation'

 

[tony.c]

Their predecessors were one of the many disparate groups which made up the mujahideen.

What Is the Taliban?

The Taliban returned to power in Afghanistan in 2021, twenty years after their ouster by U.S. troops. Under their harsh rule, they have cracked down on women’s rights and neglected basic services.

www.cfr.org

 

[Yossarian]

Is this victory being won by a whole new generation of taliban fighters, young men who joined over these 20 years?

Hard to tell with all the beards, but it does look like most of the people now fighting for the Taliban would have been children when the US first invaded.

 

[krtek a houby]

Compare the Irish and British national anthems, the first doesn't mention god once, while god is at the heart of the latter

The only rebel songs I can think of mentioning god are God save Ireland and that one by the Wolfe Tones about Monsignor horan

The Knock Song?

 

[Pickman's model]

The Knock Song?

Can't remember its title, it's not imo one of their best

 

[krtek a houby]

Can't remember its title, it's not imo one of their best

Ach, sorry. Am confusing it with the Christy Moore song!

 

[Sprocket.]

Reports on Sky news stating the Taliban are in control of provinces only forty miles from Kabul. The British Army contingent flying out to secure the departure of Britons and Afghan translators this weekend, may be arriving into a real shit storm.

 

[RainbowTown]

Are the Taliban much different to the IRA though?

For me anyway the difference is pretty clear: the IRA were never about the grotesque and brutal suppression of the people or the state they were fighting for. Whereas the Taliban were, are and always will be.

 

[gosub]

Are the Taliban much different to the IRA though?

IRA IED's usually came with a warning

 

[Brainaddict]

In all the post-mortems people are very prone to ignore the economy of afghanistan. There is massive unemployment, underemployment and poverty-wages for most, while militias offer some of the best salaries. The Western way of analysing the problems of Afghanistan has always been as a military problem or a moral problem, and that (along with neo-liberal reluctance to countenance large scale state intervention even in a moribund economy) continues to contribute to their inability to do anything to help Afghanistan. I think there are very dodgy reasons for this blindness as well - no other country in the world would be expected to maintain political stability with up to 30% unemployment and 80% of those working on insecure poverty wages, but there is a sense in the West that it something in the nature of 'The Afghan' that keeps their country violent and politically unstable...

 

[Idris2002]

Here's one thing I haven't really seen acknowledged in the mass media - the Taliban of the '90s were a creation of the Pakistan security organs. Does Pakistan still have any control over, or even influence over, the current crop of Bearded Ones? If so, has any attempt been made to square them?

 

[Brainaddict]

Here's one thing I haven't really seen acknowledged in the mass media - the Taliban of the '90s were a creation of the Pakistan security organs. Does Pakistan still have any control over, or even influence over, the current crop of Bearded Ones? If so, has any attempt been made to square them?

Social media rumours definitely still think there are significant links but I haven't seen anything credible written about it for a while. I'd be interested to know too.

 

[Brainaddict]

I'm not the only one wonders to what extent neoliberalism killed Afghanistan's chances of recovery from the Taliban https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/167203/Neoliberal_St_(BMC)_FINAL.pdf

 

[Yossarian]

In all the post-mortems people are very prone to ignore the economy of afghanistan. There is massive unemployment, underemployment and poverty-wages for most, while militias offer some of the best salaries. The Western way of analysing the problems of Afghanistan has always been as a military problem or a moral problem, and that (along with neo-liberal reluctance to countenance large scale state intervention even in a moribund economy) continues to contribute to their inability to do anything to help Afghanistan. I think there are very dodgy reasons for this blindness as well - no other country in the world would be expected to maintain political stability with up to 30% unemployment and 80% of those working on insecure poverty wages, but there is a sense in the West that it something in the nature of 'The Afghan' that keeps their country violent and politically unstable...

Yep, with massive youth unemployment and a population that has doubled in size over the last 20 years, the Taliban will not be short of fighters.

 

[krtek a houby]

For me anyway the difference is pretty clear: the IRA were never about the grotesque and brutal suppression of the people or the state they were fighting for. Whereas the Taliban were, are and always will be.

The nearest Ireland had to the Taliban was probably the brutal "morality" of the church which led to so much abuse, imprisonment and misery for thousands of women and children.

 

[Spandex]

In all the post-mortems people are very prone to ignore the economy of afghanistan.

Some people, of course, have been very interested in the Afghan economy. USAID advisors came up with this plan for privatisation in 2006:

I've no idea how far they've got with this plan. I know the Adam Smith Institute has been very involved with 'developing the private sector' in Afghanistan over the years. The US led invasion has been a great opportunity for neo-liberal ideologues to smash and grab on the Afghan state. I'm sure some western companies have done very well in Afghanistan over the past 2 decades.

 

[RainbowTown]

The nearest Ireland had to the Taliban was probably the brutal "morality" of the church which led to so much abuse, imprisonment and misery for thousands of women and children.

Absolutely. And let's remember the Irish State's abject failure to both monitor and bring to account the church for such crimes, until recently, purely because of deference and not wanting 'to rock the boat'. It is an undoubted stain, to be sure.