Accused rapist Ched Evans to be released from prison

[Spymaster]

As said, I don't think the pros did a very good job here. The two blokes who didn't testify for £50k, their evidence could and it seems did sow enough reasonable doubt.

What if it's true?

Don't forget, she didn't say she didn't consent, just that she couldn't remember. And then there are other people saying that it's happened with them.

IF it's true, Evans didn't rape her.

 

[Spymaster]

This is what the case is about. Woman is so drunk she possibly can't give consent, man doesn't care so dives in and fucks her. Man doesn't ask her name, or speak so much as a word to her...

He claimed that the other guy that was shagging her when he walked in asked her if it was ok if his mate joined in, and she said yes.

If that's the case, he could have reasonably considered her to be consenting.

 

[likesfish]

I'm pretty sure if I think a women consents I have sex with her and then leg it thats not actually a Defence

Ched "totally not a rapist " evans

 

[Wilf]

His victim has gone through hell over this. Hard to imagine how terrified and depressed she must be feeling today.

 

[Gromit]

This is what the case is about. Woman is so drunk she possibly can't give consent, man doesn't care so dives in and fucks her. Man doesn't ask her name, or speak so much as a word to her...

Cause men and women always want to know the name of the person they have sex with?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This is what the case is about. Woman is so drunk she possibly can't give consent, man doesn't care so dives in and fucks her. Man doesn't ask her name, or speak so much as a word to her...

This has been the point of issue from the start. In the first incarnation of this thread, following the guilty verdict, it was discussed at length. Just because you blacked out and have lost hours of your life that you can't remember the next day, that does not mean you were an incoherent, semi-conscious mess all through those lost hours and incapable of giving consent. It just means that your brain stopped laying down new memories for that period.

And various posters were called some very fucking nasty things for pointing this out.

 

[trashpony]

Aww poor rapey men. Did their feelings get hurt?

Here's an idea. If a woman is so drunk she's slipping in and out of consciousness, don't have sex with her.

 

[gosub]

Double jeopardy has been revised so that there can be another trial. Revised in light of Angus sinclair and world's end murders case.

I know. That to me is wrong. That did such a shit job in 2007, that they couldn't even get a not proven they really shouldn't have been allowed another go. And to under mine the principle on a bloke whose banged up for life any way. Not a good look for Scottish Justice. Nice pub though.

 

[Spymaster]

If a woman is so drunk she's slipping in and out of consciousness, don't have sex with her.

What if she doesn't seem to be, and she says "yes"?

 

[Gromit]

Aww poor rapey men. Did their feelings get hurt?

Here's an idea. If a woman is so drunk she's slipping in and out of consciousness, don't have sex with her.

You know for a fact that she was slipping in and out of consciousness? Out of curiosity how do you know this?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

What if she doesn't seem to be, and she says "yes"?

She pissed the fucking bed.

Do you fuck women in that state? I really fucking hope you don't.

 

[Spymaster]

She pissed the fucking bed.

Do you fuck women in that state? I really fucking hope you don't.

Of course not. But did she piss the bed before during or after the act? This isn't about whether or not Evans behaved like a dispicable shit bag; that's a given.

It's about whether or not he was guilty of rape.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Of course not. But did she piss the bed before But this isn't about whether or not Evans behaved like a dispicable shit bag; that's a given.

It's about whether or not he was guilty of rape.

The question is even if she said yes, was she in any position for that yes to mean genuine consent.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

quelle surprise, lbc phone in just started, 'with the ched Evans result in, should defendants in rape cases be given anonymity' and every call is saying women make up rape stories to wreck men's lives. First caller started by saying, "poor Ched..."

 

[bimble]

this is helpful, clarifies things, in terms of what just actually happened legally.
The Secret Barrister

 

[SqueakyBumTime]

so no one to leave a court in scotland will ever be innocent.

Rather like those with whom the Urbanati disagree

 

[Wilf]

In terms of what was actually put in front of them, I'm not surprised the jury came back with not guilty, as a reasonable doubt. When you throw all the justice and private investigators you can buy at a case, it's not surprising you can turn a victims sex life against her.

Part of the problem is that some of the witness statements were so tainted by promised payments, as discussed above. The other though is I just don't fucking believe Evans for a fucking minute - either that he thought she'd given consent or that he even cared whether she had or hadn't. fuck him and fuck Chesterfield.

 

[trashpony]

This is a dark, dark day for British justice. A woman's sexual history has been allowed to be used as evidence, two witnesses changed their story to tie in with the accused, and a judge has written off an offer of £50,000 as not constituting a bribe.

It's a victory for misogyny and for fewer rape prosecutions and even fewer women wanting to come forward. It's nothing to celebrate and the petty point scoring from some of the men on this thread is utterly contemptible. Shame on you.

 

[SqueakyBumTime]

This is a dark, dark day for British justice. A woman's sexual history has been allowed to be used as evidence, two witnesses changed their story to tie in with the accused, and a judge has written off an offer of £50,000 as not constituting a bribe.

It's a victory for misogyny and for fewer rape prosecutions and even fewer women wanting to come forward. It's nothing to celebrate and the petty point scoring from some of the men on this thread is utterly contemptible. Shame on you.

Are you saying the 7 women on the jury who returned not guilty were acting out of misogyny?

 

[Shirl]

Are you saying the 7 women on the jury who returned not guilty were acting out of misogyny?

I think she's saying more about the judge than the jury.

 

[Spymaster]

The question is even if she said yes, was she in any position for that yes to mean genuine consent.

That's another question.

The one at issue here is whether or not Evans could reasonably have considered her to have given consent at the time. That's it. That's the law.

If you don't like that law, then that's another discussion, but under the law, as it stands, if he thought she was consenting (and if she said "yes" it's not unreasonable to believe he did), then it wasn't rape. That's what the jury decided on.

 

[Wilf]

Are you saying the 7 women on the jury who returned not guilty were acting out of misogyny?

You didn't ask me, but no, it's unlikely. More likely that the case was allowed to proceed along lines that made not guilty a likely outcome. But because those jurors might not be misogynists, it doesn't mean the outcome isn't a victory for misogyny (and wealth).

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

That's another question.

The one at issue here is whether or not Evans could reasonably have considered her to have given consent at the time. That's it. That's the law.

If you don't like that law, then that's another discussion, but under the law, as it stands, if he thought she was consenting (and if she said "yes" it's not unreasonable to believe he did), then it wasn't rape. That's what the jury decided on.

No it ain't. The jury was asked whether she was capable of giving consent. Evans said from the start he thought she had given consent, she did not remember anything and never for a second said she did or did not said yes to McDonald's question. The case hinged on whether she had the capacity for her yes to be meaningful.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Are you saying the 7 women on the jury who returned not guilty were acting out of misogyny?

Are you suggesting that women too can't be swayed/affected by or internalise patriarchal attitudes with regard other women's behaviour and have misogynistic values?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

No it ain't. The jury was asked whether she was capable of giving consent. Evans said from the start he thought she had given consent, she did not remember anything and never for a second said she did or did not said yes to McDonald's question. The case hinged on whether she had the capacity for her yes to be meaningful.

Re reading that I'm not being clear, but have to bigger off for a bit.

 

[SqueakyBumTime]

You didn't ask me, but no, it's unlikely. More likely that the case was allowed to proceed along lines that made not guilty a likely outcome. But because those jurors might not be misogynists, it doesn't mean the outcome isn't a victory for misogyny (and wealth).

I like your reply, Wilf, because it makes a non-emotional argument. And a pretty good one at that.

 

[Gromit]

Are you suggesting that women too can't be swayed/affected or internalise patriarchal attitudes with regard other women's behaviour and have misogynistic values?

Are you saying that it's so prevalent that 7 women are likely to?

 

[SqueakyBumTime]

Are you suggesting that women too can't be swayed/affected or internalise patriarchal attitudes with regard other women's behaviour and have misogynistic values?

Oh bloody hell, are you saying that even when women make a decision it's not their responsibility?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Oh bloody hell, are you saying that even when women make a decision it's not their responsibility?

No I am asking you to answer a question that is impossible for you to answer meaningfully without generalising just like the one you asked trashpony to answer. It's pointless to throw at her the fact that some of the jurors are women. You don't win anything nor does it strengthen the decision.

 

[Pickman's model]

This is a dark, dark day for British justice. A woman's sexual history has been allowed to be used as evidence, two witnesses changed their story to tie in with the accused, and a judge has written off an offer of £50,000 as not constituting a bribe.

It's a victory for misogyny and for fewer rape prosecutions and even fewer women wanting to come forward. It's nothing to celebrate and the petty point scoring from some of the men on this thread is utterly contemptible. Shame on you.

You should read bimble's helpful link instead of talking rot

this is helpful, clarifies things, in terms of what just actually happened legally.
The Secret Barrister