Abusive. aggressive employee

[1927]

If an employee called a manager an effing cunt, and an effing arsehole, raised his hands to the manager and became agressive as well as abusive,because the manager asked the employee to comply with a simple request, for which he had had two previous warnings do you think it would be unreasonable for the manager to issue a further warning or dismiss employee. Discuss.

 

[The Groke]

P45 without hesitation surely?

 

[Santino]

There are two schools of thought. One would say that the employee should be escorted from the building, and the other says that they should be given more training.

 

[Treacle Toes]

If an employee called a manager an effing cunt, and an effing arsehole, raised his hands to the manager and became agressive as well as abusive,because the manager asked the employee to comply with a simple request, for which he had had two previous warnings do you think it would be unreasonable for the manager to issue a further warning or dismiss employee. Discuss.

Abusive, agressive Ex-employee?
P45, close the door on your way out....surely?

E2A: depends on the company procedure though...maybe you have to issue a written warning.

 

[JHE]

What the fuck is this? Is u75 so full of bosses, managers and allied bastards that it functions as an advice-giving branch of the CBI or Institute of Directors?

I don't claim that it is never right to sack people, but without knowing why the worker called the manager a fucking cunt and a fucking arsehole and seemed aggressive, I cannot possibly say the worker was in the wrong. Without further information, I'd give the worker the benefit of the doubt, not the manager.

And maybe the manager is a fucking arsehole.

 

[coccinelle]

It's not even open to discussion. The employee goes there and then.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Contractually speaking, I can not imagine getting away with behaviour like that. Whether or not the manager deserved it is another point.

 

[bodach]

Ah, the system.

 

[Melinda]

What the fuck is this? Is u75 so full of bosses, managers and allied bastards that it functions as an advice-giving branch of the CBI or Institute of Directors?

I don't claim that it is never right to sack people, but without knowing why the worker called the manager a fucking cunt and a fucking arsehole and seemed aggressive, I cannot possibly say the worker was in the wrong. Without further information, I'd give the worker the benefit of the doubt, not the manager.

And maybe the manager is a fucking arsehole.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Without further information, I'd give the worker the benefit of the doubt, not the manager.

And maybe the manager is a fucking arsehole.

Maybe but we do know this....

because the manager asked the employee to comply with a simple request, for which he had had two previous warnings do you think it would be unreasonable for the manager to issue a further warning or dismiss employee. Discuss.

 

[JHE]

No, Rutita, we do NOT know why the worker was angry with the manager. We do not even know what the poster above claims was a "simple request", let alone what had happened before.

We've just got a moaning boss or boss's mouthpiece inviting us to agree that the worker should be sacked.

 

[Citizen66]

Abusive, agressive Ex-employee?
P45, close the door on your way out....surely?

If it's an Ex-employee then how would one be furnished with their P45?

There's certain conduct expected of both the management and workers. If a worker or manager is abusive towards another member of staff then that's reasonable cause for that employee to be disciplined for gross misconduct.

 

[Treacle Toes]

No, Rutita, we do NOT know why the worker was angry with the manager. We do not even know what the poster above claims was a "simple request", let alone what had happened before.

We've just got a moaning boss or boss's mouthpiece inviting us to agree that the worker should be sacked.

Calm down mate, regardless of whether the boss is a wanker or not....I do not know of any job where I could handle the situation by swearing at, being abusive to, or raising my hand to ANYONE without disciplinary action being taken. It is NOT the way to deal with things, wanker bosses or not.

 

[Treacle Toes]

If it's an Ex-employee then how would one be furnished with their P45?

Meaning this could be a sackable offence.

There's certain conduct expected of both the management and workers. If a worker or manager is abusive towards another member of staff then that's reasonable cause for that employee to be disciplined for gross misconduct.

I edited my original post because I'm not sure of the procedures of this comapny.

 

[bodach]

Wrong thread.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Wrong thread.

There is no system without individuals.

 

[bodach]

There is no system without individuals.

 

[cesare]

Calm down mate, regardless of whether the boss is a wanker or not....I do not know of any job where I could handle the situation by swearing at, being abusive to, or raising my hand to ANYONE without disciplinary action being taken. It is NOT the way to deal with things, wanker bosses or not.

But the thing is, there could be any number of reasons* why this has happened. You gotta investigate first.






* Including, but not limited to: thyroid problems, mental health illness, hypoglycaemia etc etc etc

 

[Treacle Toes]

But the thing is, there could be any number of reasons* why this has happened. You gotta investigate first.

I accept the point, but can't imagine this behaviour being overlooked and going undisciplined in a work environment where there are procedures in place.

 

[lighterthief]

There are two schools of thought. One would say that the employee should be escorted from the building, and the other says that they should be given more training.

So, so true.

 

[cesare]

I accept the point, but can't imagine this behaviour being overlooked and going undisciplined in a work environment where there are procedures in place.

If someone is ill, or has a condition where the treatment has been changed (just by way of two examples) - this type of behaviour might occur and disciplining isn't going to resolve the problem. It's not about 'overlooking' - quite the reverse.

It's about understanding the circumstances that led up to/contributed to the incident and then deciding on an appropriate course of action, which may - or may not - include disciplinary sanctions.

 

[Treacle Toes]

1927:
Please qualify WHAT the simple request was.... and HOW that request relates to the 'employee's' contract/job description.

 

[cesare]

Are you the manager concerned, 1927?

 

[Citizen66]

Meaning this could be a sackable offence.

But if they're an EX employee then they're no longer with the company and can't be sacked, apologies for the pedantry etc.

I'm an unrepentant trades unionist but rules are rules. A worker can be protected against management trying to bend the rules to suit themselves but have to follow the conduct that is expected of them too. It's got nothing to do with company policies it's employment law that nobody, no matter what their position, is abused in any way in the work place.

 

[two sheds]

If an employee called a manager an effing cunt, and an effing arsehole, raised his hands to the manager and became agressive as well as abusive,because the manager asked the employee to comply with a simple request, for which he had had two previous warnings do you think it would be unreasonable for the manager to issue a further warning or dismiss employee. Discuss.

Editor asked Crispy to get him a cup of tea again?

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

Contractually speaking, I can not imagine getting away with behaviour like that. Whether or not the manager deserved it is another point.

I agree...

as an aside could the employee have a point? Is this manager a cunt and provoking him in any way?

 

[Treacle Toes]

But if they're an EX employee then they're no longer with the company and can't be sacked, apologies for the pedantry etc.

The point was, abusive and aggressive = Ex employee.

I'm an unrepentant trades unionist but rules are rules. A worker can be protected against management trying to bend the rules to suit themselves but have to follow the conduct that is expected of them too. It's got nothing to do with company policies it's employment law.

Was my point about the way things are done/how one behaves.


Let's await 1927 full explanation of what the circumstances were.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I agree...

as an aside could the employee have a point? Is this manager a cunt and provoking him in any way?

Quite possibly but threatening abusive behaviour will not necessarily hekp you in that situation.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I've been provoked in the most appalling ways by plenty of 'managers' in the past but have never given them the satisfaction of getting the better of me. I have come across plenty of irrational bullies and the vast majority have been colleagues, but not all. I have always kept my temper and survived.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Editor asked Crispy to get him a cup of tea again?