Absolutely the only single GE 2017 results thread.

[Casually Red]

View attachment 109092

How Brexit could wipe out the Tory party. Robert Harris in the Sunday Times.

That's what I was saying earlier about this being the best possible result for Corbyn . He's dodged a massive bullet with this one . There's no way he could have his ducks in a row vis a vis EU negotiations given the level of internal treachery and 5th columnist sabotage he's faced . he'd have been saddled with the entire brexit fall out in a very weak position politically . Now he's got time to set his house in order and go forward from a position of strength and vindication while the Tories are reeling from one debacle after another and on the verge of cannibalising one another .

 

[CrabbedOne]

the Labour manifesto included a pledge to extend abortion rights to women in NI. I hope this is brought up soon.

That's a bold intrusion by JC. I wonder what Dublin would say as they don't have abortion either? I think SF now supports abortion but in only limited cases not on demand and that's controversial within the party. The DUP and SDLP don't even go that far and blocked a Stormont vote to allow some medically necessary abortion. It's the Church at back of it and Ireland still being a pretty God bothering country. Most people in N.I. (at least) think it's a bit daft that you have to hop over to the other island to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. That is if you can afford it.

 

[bimble]

I see that when the 'leaked' manifesto caused alarm it seems they altered it a bit for the final version.
The draft manifesto said the Labour Party would “continue to ensure a woman’s right to choose a safe, legal abortion – and we will legislate to extend that right to women in Northern Ireland.”
Final one says "“we will work with the Assembly to extend that right to women in Northern Ireland.” But that is still a clear statement of intent.
Labour manifesto pledges abortion rights for Northern Ireland - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
Labour waters down Northern Ireland abortion pledge | CatholicHerald.co.uk

 

[SpookyFrank]

This is worth keeping on file

View attachment 109093

We'll only need to keep it on file until tomorrow morning I reckon.

 

[SpookyFrank]

View attachment 109092

How Brexit could wipe out the Tory party. Robert Harris in the Sunday Times.

Sounds about right. Corbyn really doesn't want to be leading a minority government into this oncoming shitstorm.

 

[Badgers]

We'll only need to keep it on file until tomorrow morning I reckon.

You would think that the sensible thing would be for May to resign/get pushed. However I really don't think the Tory party will want anymore change or upheaval at this moment.

Likely she (if not pushed) will stay for a few months and then step aside to give the impression the party are in control.

 

[DotCommunist]

they are hoping the ritual sacrifice of those two key advisers will keep internal voices happy I recon.

 

[SpookyFrank]

You would think that the sensible thing would be for May to resign/get pushed. However I really don't think the Tory party will want anymore change or upheaval at this moment.

Likely she (if not pushed) will stay for a few months and then step aside to give the impression the party are in control.

May staying discredits the party and the government, and a leadership contest would have exactly the same effect. Maybe if there was a relatively competent and uncontroversial leader-in-waiting who could be installed with a minimum of fuss then May would get the boot, but even if such a person did exist they probably wouldn't even want the job.

 

[Wilf]

Sounds about right. Corbyn really doesn't want to be leading a minority government into this oncoming shitstorm.

And of course a national debt of £1.6 trillion.

 

[bimble]

If Boris Johnson was to become prime minister i don't know if i'll be able to keep laughing or if that would be too much to bear.

 

[Badgers]

May staying discredits the party and the government, and a leadership contest would have exactly the same effect. Maybe if there was a relatively competent and uncontroversial leader-in-waiting who could be installed with a minimum of fuss then May would get the boot, but even if such a person did exist they probably wouldn't even want the job.

I think stay or go the party look shit

 

[SpookyFrank]

If Boris Johnson was to become prime minister i don't know if i'll be able to keep laughing or if that would be too much to bear.

He would be the final nail in the tory coffin. So still funny I'd say.

 

[Badgers]

 

[Casually Red]

That's a bold intrusion by JC. I wonder what Dublin would say as they don't have abortion either? I think SF now supports abortion but in only limited cases not on demand and that's controversial within the party. The DUP and SDLP don't even go that far and blocked a Stormont vote to allow some medically necessary abortion. It's the Church at back of it and Ireland still being a pretty God bothering country. Most people in N.I. (at least) think it's a bit daft that you have to hop over to the other island to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. That is if you can afford it.

Opposition to abortion in the north straddles the religious divide as well as right and left. Including far left and even some atheists . There's a lot more at the back of it than merely " the church " . Most people in the north don't think the way you think they think . Support for it isn't a vote getter by any means , quite the reverse . Its cost sinn fein votes for certain as well as a few high profile defections . And as the most rigid , top down party on the entire island their position on it is basically whatevers in gerry adams head at any given time . Certainly not as a result of any grass roots pressure .
There was an amnesty international poll last year that made some pretty startling claims but they've been pretty shady about the actual questions they put and it hasn't stood up to scrutiny .Most people ...without any shadow of doubt...vote for parties that either oppose it outright or whose very limited support for it has caused a lot of internal division and controversy . The claim that most people in the north think it daft it's outlawed here definitely isn't backed up by any political facts on the ground . That's not to take a position on it either way , simply to point out that it's not anywhere near as cut and dried as you're making out .

I think you've been chatting to your in laws again and extrapolating your insights based on whatever they think . This appears to be a recurring trait of yours . Empirically speaking this mightn't be the most reliable of barometers as regards gauging public opinion . Perhaps you should have a look at the methodology of your research methods and consider factoring in other variables . Such as the opinions of people who aren't your in laws in Belfast .

 

[bimble]

I went to the DM and found these pictures of a demo this morning outside parliament.
Oddly not seeing it covered elsewhere. Plenty of stop the war & swp placards in the pictures but still.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Fuck it, there's five or six threads this could go on, so I'm dumping it here.

 

[Casually Red]

I see that when the 'leaked' manifesto caused alarm it seems they altered it a bit for the final version.
The draft manifesto said the Labour Party would “continue to ensure a woman’s right to choose a safe, legal abortion – and we will legislate to extend that right to women in Northern Ireland.”
Final one says "“we will work with the Assembly to extend that right to women in Northern Ireland.” But that is still a clear statement of intent.
Labour manifesto pledges abortion rights for Northern Ireland - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk
Labour waters down Northern Ireland abortion pledge | CatholicHerald.co.uk

" Working with the assembly " means seeking the DUPs..and others..agreement . And being told in turn to fuck off back to London with your fancy schmancy ways and mind your own business .....umm..don't forget to sign the cheque on your way out . Thanks .

This is the same assembly that blocked the UK governments advertisements encouraging energy conservation from being broadcast on television here because Sammy Wilson, the environment minister, thinks climate change is a massive hoax . Just like evolution.mso they wouldn't let advice on basic household energy conservation be broadcast on the telly . If they can't get Co operation on stuff like switching off your lights when your not using them you can pretty much forget about abortion .

 

[Corax]

May staying discredits the party and the government, and a leadership contest would have exactly the same effect. Maybe if there was a relatively competent and uncontroversial leader-in-waiting who could be installed with a minimum of fuss then May would get the boot, but even if such a person did exist they probably wouldn't even want the job.

Based on absolutely fuck all other than "I reckon...", I suspect the plan is:

1) Convince BoJo to stand
2) Allow him to get internally savaged
3) Put David Davis up as a unity candidate

 

[Raheem]

Based on absolutely fuck all other than "I reckon...", I suspect the plan is:

1) Convince BoJo to stand
2) Allow him to get internally savaged
3) Put David Davis up as a unity candidate

There ain't no plan.

 

[Corax]

There ain't no plan.

Okay, let's call it a 'Conspiracy Amongst Senior Tory MPs" then. Better headline.

 

[Raheem]

Okay, let's call it a 'Conspiracy Amongst Senior Tory MPs" then. Better headline.

I think there ain't no that either. Davis and Johnson will follow their own interests and ego. No-one will be pulling the strings.

 

[Corax]

I think there ain't no that either. Davis and Johnson will follow their own interests and ego. No-one will be pulling the strings.

You don't think Hammond et al are having 'private conversations'? I'd find that incredibly surprising.

 

[Casually Red]

I imagine that speech will be part of the way in which he gives something back to those who voted for him. It doesn't have to get through - he just has to be seen and heard saying it.

It's a good tactic as well for someone who was completely written off as a contender for anything up until a few weeks..or even days ago . On the eve of the election the BBC were even telling us Labour faced oblivion everywhere outside London . He's pulled off the seemingly impossible a number of times . So given the shaky..and deeply unpopular, yet to be finalised...alliance with the DUP it'll definitely be at the back of Mays mind not to totally write him off . It adds to her pressures by snapping at her heels and could possibly force yet another error . It makes her look weak and detracts from her legitimacy as a leader .

As well as that his most successful tactic has been to persue as much polarisation as possible between his position and the Tories . To make it " us and them " , as opposed to the Blairite " we are a slightly nicer version of them " . There's no shake hands , best team won , business as usual parliamentary niceties going on while they set about their austerity and class war agenda . Polarisation worked for trump . Why not Corbyn ? It emphasises yet again theres a vast difference between his maifesto and theirs and as well as all that it sends a clear signal that he's leading a government in waiting, ready for office . All that jazz .

It's the right move, right message to be sending on a number of levels. He's getting rather good at this the longer he's at it .

 

[kabbes]

Fuck it, there's five or six threads this could go on, so I'm dumping it here.

Is that like those polls that showed that nobody would vote for Labour if Corbyn was leader?

 

[binka]

Is that like those polls that showed that nobody would vote for Labour if Corbyn was leader?

No. We like this one

 

[treelover]

I'm seeing reports on Twitter of an unscheduled Orange march in Liverpool with some trouble outside Irish pubs in the city centre.

Edit. Scratch unscheduled ? They have stuff in their calendar for Southport, but not Liverpool

My late mother would recognise all that, thought it had gone from Liverpool.

 

[Supine]

You don't think Hammond et al are having 'private conversations'? I'd find that incredibly surprising.

The conservative big dogs will have red hot phones at the moment. Game of thrones is on.

 

[Casually Red]

My late mother would recognise all that, thought it had gone from Liverpool.

Back in fashion again thanks to the DUPs invitation into polite society. Let's just hope the hipsters don't see some retro ironic chic in it .

 

[Miss-Shelf]

My late mother would recognise all that, thought it had gone from Liverpool.

Me too. I remember it was active in the 70's. I thought they just went for a jolly in Southport

 

[Raheem]

You don't think Hammond et al are having 'private conversations'? I'd find that incredibly surprising.

Of course they will be, but mainly about whether it's him or someone else who will stand. The PCP is factionalised. There's no-one who is in a position to pick the next leader. It just has to unfold.