A Woman's Place is Speaking Up in Wales

[shygirl]

not really interested in a closed shop "down with this kind of thing" non public event broadcasting to the allowed audience with no real debate possible
and i'm dole scum atm so have to choose which events that charge that I really want to go to

How are women's rights at risk from people who've transitioned??

and at the protests against the anti abortionists outside the clinic in Cardiff there were, more often than not, trans women there showing solidarity and upholding the rights of women

The event on Thursday is about changes to the Gender Recognition Act that will allow self-ID. So it's about the potential risks to women and girls from men who, as I said earlier, who might self-id in order to access women/girl only spaces for malevolent reason.

 

[ddraig]

It may come as a surprise to you but the meetings are open to all who get a ticket. The only thing people are not allowed to do is make trouble or shout out speakers and people who are given the mic at the end. So you actually get to say something if you find it in yourself to attend a meeting and see for yourself instead of just projecting your fears onto the organisation.
Last meeting I was in Sophie Walker was there and spoke and three transwomen spoke at the end too.

why do they caveat it with being able to cancel and refund tickets then? it's clearly not open to all who get a ticket and someone is deciding who should and can attend

 

[ddraig]

The event on Thursday is about changes to the Gender Recognition Act that will allow self-ID. So it's about the potential risks to women and girls from men who, as I said earlier, who might self-id in order to access women/girl only spaces for malevolent reason.

does this actually happen though? are there any examples or cases of this happening?

 

[MochaSoul]

But my point of view will not be given an equal platform and I will be attempting to make a point in what is an overwhelmingly hostile environment. After a whole meeting, the pro trans response is only going to be via a microphone, at the end, possibly, while being shouted down.

No thanks. Equal platform or nothing.

Last time I checked, trans were the ones who started the whole "We won't share platforms with "TERFs"" and along with no-platforming and the unbelievable abuse, plus the physical attacks on women, that's what's contributed to the toxicity of the debate now.
Women owe you nothing. Keep the Graund.

 

[Sea Star]

The event on Thursday is about changes to the Gender Recognition Act that will allow self-ID. So it's about the potential risks to women and girls from men who, as I said earlier, who might self-id in order to access women/girl only spaces for malevolent reason.

Can you just please read what vintage paw posted up and respond to the points there please.

Also, will any of that be represented at the meeting.

 

[Sea Star]

Last time I checked, trans were the ones who started the whole "We won't share platforms with "TERFs"" and along with no-platforming and the unbelievable abuse, plus the physical attacks on women, that's what's contributed to the toxicity of the debate now.
Women owe you nothing. Keep the Graund.

I'm a woman.

Why can't you listen to those of us who support the changes to obtaining a GRC that won't make iota of difference to women who don't need that right.

 

[Athos]

Equal platform or nothing.

Not '#nodebate' then?

 

[MochaSoul]

why do they caveat it with being able to cancel and refund tickets then? it's clearly not open to all who get a ticket and someone is deciding who should and can attend

Because if there are leaks about venue locations, the venues tend to cancel the events altogether. A good example of this was the meeting organised by We Need to Talk, which was cancelled by the football club and ended up in a much too small room in the Houses of Parliament with no permission to film it.

 

[MochaSoul]

I'm a woman.

To me you're a transwoman.

 

[ddraig]

Because if there are leaks about venue locations, the venues tend to cancel the events altogether. A good example of this was the meeting organised by We Need to Talk, which was cancelled by the football club and ended up in a much too small room in the Houses of Parliament with no permission to film it.

that's not an answer to what i posted is it
you said anyone can attend and clearly they can not if the organisers are able to cancel tickets in advance

 

[Sea Star]

Not '#nodebate' then?

I don't know what you're even talking about

 

[Sea Star]

To me you're a transwoman.

To me you're a TERF

Sorry, I reject the word "trans". I'm a woman. I will not be labelled!!

 

[Vintage Paw]

The event on Thursday is about changes to the Gender Recognition Act that will allow self-ID. So it's about the potential risks to women and girls from men who, as I said earlier, who might self-id in order to access women/girl only spaces for malevolent reason.

You might want to read the thread I posted above. It explains how a GRC will have little to no impact on who is allowed in which space.

 

[Lilith Morris]

So if I was genuinely interested in hearing about this I wouldn’t be allowed in because I’m male? Sounds like discrimination to me!

It's a mixed-sex event.

 

[Vintage Paw]

To me you're a transwoman.

To me you're a cis woman. But whatever we call each other and whatever we call ourselves it doesn't get rid of the fact we all coexist in the same space and we all want everyone to be safe and everyone to be afforded the same rights and protections.

 

[MochaSoul]

To me you're a TERF

Sorry, I reject the word "trans". I'm a woman. I will not be labelled!!

What other people think of me is their business. I don't like cis an I'm past fighting who calls me it beyond making sure the law does not enshrine such a regressive term.

 

[Sea Star]

Because if there are leaks about venue locations, the venues tend to cancel the events altogether. A good example of this was the meeting organised by We Need to Talk, which was cancelled by the football club and ended up in a much too small room in the Houses of Parliament with no permission to film it.

That suggests that the views being spouted at these events might be a tad unpopular.

 

[Sea Star]

What other people think of me is their business. I don't like cis an I'm past fighting who calls me it beyond making sure the law does not enshrine such a regressive term.

As long as we do away with trans too, and we can all just be women.

 

[Lilith Morris]

do you worry these people will come to Cardiff?? can't you just ban these individuals who have done the attacking?
still confused, would I be able to attend for example? not that I want to jut wondering. And again, what is the criteria on which people will be refused entry or have their ticket cancelled and refunded? It doesn't look like a public meeting at all

Any organiser would want to be able to do this, in the context of a concerted campaign against their meetings taking place at all, which might necessitate change of venue, perhaps to one with a different capacity, cancelling or rescheduling the event.

 

[Lilith Morris]

On another point. If this is a commercial venture, charging an entrance fee, with a selection policy for attendees, has it been cleared with editor as it may well fall foul of the board policies!

It's not a commercial venture. Venues are not free and grassroots campaigns sell tickets to subsidise the costs of meetings.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Actually, I don't agree with the question, tbh. I don't believe that we're exclusionary in the first place. Women and girls have protected rights to female-only spaces for reasons of privacy and safety. Not wanting male-bodied people and trans women in those spaces is just upholding those rights. Male-bodied people, whether they identify as women or not, haven't been allowed into these spaces since the rights were established. Why would be change that based on the feelings of a tiny minority of people. It doesn't make sense, imo.

It is, of course, a different matter for TW who have transitioned.

Just coming back to these points.

"Male-bodied people, whether they identify as women or not, haven't been allowed into these spaces since the rights were established." Genitalia hasn't been a defining factor of whether trans people are considered their preferred gender or not, as explained in the long thread I quoted above. Self-id already happens because it is, practically speaking, the only thing that can happen unless we deny the existence of trans people and their right to exist in public life altogether. Obtaining a GRC doesn't change this.

"It is, of course, a different matter for TW who have transitioned." What do you mean by 'transitioned'? You mean genital surgery, yes? That's not what transition means. Transition can involve genital surgery for some people, but it doesn't have to. Transition encompasses a range of things, and perhaps might broadly fall under the umbrella of 'presenting full-time as their preferred gender.' Commonly this will include name changes and hormone treatment, but as explained in the thread I posted some people are unable to undergo hormone treatment for a variety of reasons so even this isn't necessarily the absolute marker of transition. What constitutes transition will differ from person to person depending on their circumstances. But by no means is genital surgery the point which must be crossed in order for a person to magically be transitioned.

 

[MochaSoul]

So if I was genuinely interested in hearing about this I wouldn’t be allowed in because I’m male? Sounds like discrimination to me!

Men are allowed in the events. Children are allowed in the events. No one is refused entry and only troublemakers are shown the door.

 

[MochaSoul]

As long as we do away with trans too, and we can all just be women.

Ha!

 

[Sea Star]

Men are allowed in the events. Children are allowed in the events. No one is refused entry and only troublemakers are shown the door.

Define troublemaker.

 

[Lilith Morris]

I've heard of too many people having their tickets refused. I would actually take you up on this if I could, but I suspect I would be refused entry. Also, Cardiff is too far.

I would respectfully be making lots of points and challenging anything that could be construed as hate speech, such as referring to trans women as parasites.

That's simply untrue. Films of the talks are available on the womansplaceuk.org website if anyone wants to check them out against your accusation of 'hate speech'.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Define troublemaker.

Person who takes exception to being told they shouldn't exist.

 

[Sea Star]

That's simply untrue. Films of the talks are available on the womansplaceuk.org website if anyone wants to check them out against your accusation of 'hate speech'.

I've seen really nasty stuff where trans women have been mocked. And facts are in very short supply. As for the refusal of entry, I will go back to see if I can find the evidence for this, but anecdotally I've read of quite a few allies who were refunded at the last minute.

 

[shygirl]

does this actually happen though? are there any examples or cases of this happening?

Interesting question, but one that is hard to determine as you only have the person's word for it. If a man fraudulently asserts he feels like a woman, how can that be proved. There are some cases reported in the media in US/Canada/UK of transwomen commiting violent/sexual crime against women and girls. They might not be men who genuinely feel they are women, but we can only go by what they say.

 

[MochaSoul]

I've seen really nasty stuff where trans women have been mocked. And facts are in very short supply. As for the refusal of entry, I will go back to see if I can find the evidence for this, but anecdotally I've read of quite a few allies who were refunded at the last minute.

Not at Woman's Place events.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Will anyone who's been spewing disgusting bile about the YouTube shooter be allowed to attend?