It's a public meeting and the organisers have explicitly encouraged people from all constituencies (and none) to come along. My instinct is to support self-identification but that's currently from a position of almost total ignorance so I'm attending in order to better understand the issue and the emotions aroused. I agree that it would be really helpful to have speakers who support self-identification and am disappointed that they are not on the platform. I will contact the organisers to ask if that can be put right. But I wish members would not go so quickly in to attack mode - it's a rubbish way of encouraging contributions.
A Woman's Place is Speaking Up in Wales
- Thread starter shygirl
- Start date
Gromit
International Man of Misery
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Spanglechick's a woman, I believe. Who is saying she's wrong?
Are you assuming people’s gender?
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
I'm a woman
But this is what usually happens when a trans woman - or even cis women at times - when we speak up against TERF ideology. We get accused of mansplaining or talking over women. It really isn't helpful if you genuinely want a debate.
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ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
is asking questions and seeking clarification telling people they are wrong??
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
That's exclusionary. You've essentially decided that the other side of the argument has no validity and aren't letting us speak.
You've also decided that trans women have always been excluded which is really not true. I personally know a trans woman who works in a women's refugee. Have a Google, and you'll see that trans women have been accepted as women for a long time now.
You do realise that most cis women don't agree with your position.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
I won’t even pretend to understand the subject, but it seems to me from reading various comments recently that this is a fucking mindfield. You have people standing up for women’s rights, and for the rights of people identifying as women, be them pre/post operative or for any other reason. Thenyiu have womenstating that only biological women are teal worn and they feel threatened by allowing any other type of non- biological woman rights to use female toilets etc.
Is there a way that there will ever be common ground?
Is there a way that there will ever be common ground?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh stand back lest you become embroiled in this clusterfuck
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Women.
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
Is that anyone who identifies as a woman, a post/pre op woman or just biological women?
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
Who defines women?
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Oh good. When do I get my say then?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Your slot was three hours and fifteen minutes ago
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Most women, trans or cis, have had this worked out for years with no problem. Even self id has been a thing for years now. I have a female passport, I enter women only spaces, no-one cares except for a few extremists.
The women in my union have had to make a statement of support for trans women after a male official took it upon himself to speak for women in attacking trans women. Cis women have that backs of trans women, with the exception of a small number.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
Oh, that was it was it?Your slot was three hours and fifteen minutes ago
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
There's another slot opened up in ten minutes time but after that it's a week on tuesday
Nope. Sorry, but don't and won't accept the accusation of bigotry for wanting to defend women and girls' safe spaces from male-bodied people, some of whom, possibly a teeny weeny minority, might self-id as a women in order to access them. Laws exist, in part, to protect people against harmful behaviours.
There's nothing more we would like than to have rational, mature, respectful discussions. Alas, it seems a signicant number of trans activists believe there is no debate, that we should be shouted down, and have no right to a platform. I don't know if any of you saw those fucking disgraceful TRAs recently shouting down a trade unionist who stood on a picket line recently, because she had attended one of the Woman's Place UK meetings? Well, that's the kind of thing anyone, but mainly women, are faced with for attempting to debate.
Female trade union official ‘bullied off own union’s picket line on International Women’s Day’
(I believe she was on the picket line in solidarity with comrades from another union).
Gromit
International Man of Misery
I don't care if it's a man, a woman, black or white is spouting bigotry I'll call that shit out.
I feel for trans people because they get it in the neck from both sexes.
You remind me of South Africa complaining about outsiders poking their nose into their affairs because they believed in Apartheid.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
how can you have "rational, mature, respectful discussions" if you're policing the attendees in advance?
really confused by this
obviously the bloke was a dirty pervert man no question and there are many others, so imagine there'd be a more recent example
did they claim they were a woman?why did you post this as an example shygirl ?
To show that predatory men, whether trans or not, will use loop-holes to gain access to women and girls. I am NOT saying that transwomen have this as an agenda, but that some men are likely to use self-id as a way of accessing women and girls. In the same way that some men pretend to be interested in youth work, teaching, etc in order to get their rocks off on being close to children. Think boy scouts. This shit happens.
We will not be able to distinguish between a man who is fraudulent in claiming to feel like a woman and someone who genuinely feels themselves to be a woman. The law is there to protect us and given that 98 % of sexual violence on women and girls is committed by men, we need to be cautious. There's rather a lot of instances in the US where trans-women (mostly are probably fraudulent in the way I described above) have spied on, assaulted, raped and murdered women and girls. The law is a safety-net. I hope that explains it for you Ddraig.
1927
Funnier than he thinks he is.
Sounds like the BBC approach to Question Time audience participation!
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
It's a thing that has never happened even though, practically, self id had been around for a long time already - I self id as a woman, I'm not sure what the alternative is - and trans women accessing women only spaces happens now, and has been for a long time.
Abusive men dont need to ride trans women's coat tails to be abusive, they just do it.
Sea Star
have you ever explored your dark side?
For instance, I know I wouldn't be allowed in.
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