Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

A thank you to Brexiteers.

I keep reading on here about the Working Class-ness of the brexit vote and its weird because i live in the middle of a really smug affluent bit of middle England which voted leave, its as if you are ignoring all of my neighbours, the whole village full of retired accountants and national trust members in their vastly overpriced quaint cottages with their stupid bunting still up. Both the archetypes are stupid fictions i dont get why people feel the need to keep pushing them.
Of course it's wrong to over-generalise in such an evenly divided outcome but, as has been posted before, there were significant differences between the proportions of R/L voters by socio-economic groupings:

1658997703957.png
 
Of course it's wrong to over-generalise in such an evenly divided outcome but, as has been posted before, there were significant differences between the proportions of R/L voters by socio-economic groupings:

View attachment 334854
yes, i know. i must just live in a bit thats full of those 43% . I remember poring over the data years ago and owning your own home seemed to be the biggest indicator of voting leave, more consistent than anything else. Owning your own home goes with being old obvs but it was even stronger than that correlation as i recall.
 
Last edited:
So, 6 years and we've trained hundreds of working class people (for many their first taste of activity). Enduring networks have been been built. In fact I've just met some fellow LeFT supporters at the RMT picket. Personally, I've been involved in supporting a number of disputes and campaigns in Birmingham. It. I also spend about 20-25 hours a week doing unpaid union work helping fellow members with grievances and disciplinaries and organizing workers.

What have you done, bar crying into your keyboard that you lost a popular vote?

I don't think it's right to criticise you or the PEP project or suggest it hasn't been working hard or achieving stuff.

The point you keep ignoring is that good things coming out of the Lexit campaign is a completely different thing from good things coming out of Brexit.

When I looked at the PEP twitter feed I noticed this



Seems like the word "pandemic" could simply be swapped for "brexit" there and we'd have a typical Lexit statement. And it might even be true, but it doesn't demonstrate that the pandemic was a good thing, or was worth going through in order to gain these opportunities does it?
 
Maybe, but as a demographic, they're hardly alone in attaching quasi-spiritual belief to their preferred referendum outcome. Many working class Leave supporters continue to justify their choice based exclusively on elements of the affective domain. This is all completely unsurprising given the reductive nature of the binary choice that the tories elevated to the defining political issue of our times.

Not in my experience. They/we have long moved on. It was the right decision at the time. A generational kick in the bollocks to our rulers and would be rulers. I accept the cranks and Tory leavers want to fight the battle over and again but I'm talking about our side.
 
what i want is to understand why left wing people voted thus. if you are one such person i'd rather hear why from you

Read the thread. Skip the middle class liberal whining/psychodrama/meltdown/FBPE Twitter dribble bits which will reduce the thread down to about 5 pages.
 
Read the thread. Skip the middle class liberal whining/psychodrama/meltdown/FBPE Twitter dribble bits which will reduce the thread down to about 5 pages.
it's 373 pages. that's not gonna happen. If you don't want to share your position, that's fine, but i see no benefits to voting leave. This appears to be evident now
 
Not in my experience. They/we have long moved on. It was the right decision at the time. A generational kick in the bollocks to our rulers and would be rulers. I accept the cranks and Tory leavers want to fight the battle over and again but I'm talking about our side.
QED

Claims that it is possible to "move on" from the consequences of the referendum outcome, (good or ill), that the outcome was "right", that it represented a "kick in the bollocks to our rulers" are all very much located in the affective domain and can sound very much like the quasi-religious hopes of the newly converted zealot.
 
it's 373 pages. that's not gonna happen. If you don't want to share your position, that's fine, but i see no benefits to voting leave. This appears to be evident now

I've shared 'my position' on here at great length (as my remain 'friends' will attest). If you cba to read it that's fine by me.
 
QED

Claims that it is possible to "move on" from the consequences of the referendum outcome, (good or ill), that the outcome was "right", that it represented a "kick in the bollocks to our rulers" are all very much located in the affective domain and can sound very much like the quasi-religious hopes of the newly converted zealot.

No it doesn't.
 
I've now had the chance to read this. I have also read some of the other articles posted up here subsequently. The FT piece isn't bad. It is quite correct to suggest that Johnson and Starmer, and the parties that they lead, do not have an idea, or a convincing vision, of the type of economic landscape that needs to be adopted post-Brexit and that large swathes of Britian's political and narrating class is currently paralyzed as a result: rabbits in the economic headlights. The article doesn't say, but should, that one effect of this is that they do not have a serious approach to dealing with the current crisis either, caused by rising prices and inflation caused by excessive corporate profit and the historically unprecedented transfer of wealth from us to the 1%. A process which frankly dwarves the sum of £40bn discussed by the FT in its article.

The article also, conveniently, overlooks 40 years of economic activity and policy making in the UK - whilst it was part of the EU economic arrangements - that perhaps better suggests why the UK economy is tanking and why wages are falling. Low levels of investment, poor productivity, a lack of international competitiveness and exports failing to keep up with imports are not problems that have arisen in the last 5 years. They have been gradually embedding facts and deformities of the British economy since 1973. The manufactured goods base in the accounts for less than 10% of the economy: the smallest in the G7 and across much of Europe. Almost everything that we buy – TVs, washing machines, mobile phones – is imported (and imported from outside of the EU) and has been for decades. Britain has not had a trade surplus for almost 50 years and our trade deficit has grown each year (arguably the decline has been sped up since the pandemic and Brexit but the underlying trend is much longer run). So, when economists say that the British economy is performing worse than the EU (which is true, but is merely comparing two dreadful economic forecasts) they are correct but conveniently overlook the structural economic reasons.

The reality is that in or out of the EU the grim spectre of the Thatcherite market economy on the British economy and its operation for the last 40 plus years has led to decades of falling wages, a historic rise in the gini coefficient that measures inequality, a collapse in the ability of ordinary people to build decent lives and an economy floating on a sea of debt, credit and property speculation. Money is used to buy money. It is not invested, it is accumulated and retained.

What would be a disaster for the left, compounding other disasters, would be to now swim along with liberalism in assuming that the answer and the necessary debate about these systemic problems is best done through the prism of the EU. What is needed instead is a vision for what a better economy: based on economic justice, collective bargaining and a generational shift in money and wealth away from the 1% and back towards the rest of us: and to consider how that might be achieved post Brexit. Neither the EU or the existing order in the UK offers anything like this.

As we are on the Brexit thread I will say again that its real tragedy was the defeat of a disorientated Labour leadership and a manifesto that at least pointed in that direction, and would in a post Brexit economy have taken a small but seismically important step away from the path we've been on since 1973. As for those who say an alternative vision is too ambitious and can't be done I'd point out that the left used to possess such ambition and ideas and went out and argued for them and stood by them:. In fact, in 1973 the Labour Party's Alterative Economic Strategy set out an economic plan - also ground in an anguished debate about the EU - based on a political understanding of economic policy as class struggle and aimed to impose greater working class political control on each of the forms of capital and approach that in 2022 is essential to unpick the damage of the last 50 years. Perhaps, the need - and the method of achieving it - for a similar strategy is a more pressing question than which form of neo-liberal economic arrangements is the least worst?

Karl Masks
 
How was it “a generational kick in the teeth for our rulers and would be rulers” seriously I would love to know.
If it was remotely that how come the Tory party served it up on a plate and then got back in riding it’s coattails to a massive majority?
Crazy talk.
 
How was it “a generational kick in the teeth for our rulers and would be rulers” seriously I would love to know.
If it was remotely that how come the Tory party served it up on a plate and then got back in riding it’s coattails to a massive majority?
Crazy talk.
What happens when Base & Superstructure are misinterpreted.
 
How on earth was it that? Next thing was an 80 seat majority for boris Johnson’s get brexit done party and rees-mogg the cartoon toff as the iconic champion of the Ministry of it.
You seem to be missing the two years and three months between the 2019 election and jrm being appointed minister for brexit opportunities. Perhaps you were just dozing
 
David Cameron having a bad day isn’t quite the same thing as “a generational kick in the bollocks to our would be rulers’ is it. Slim pickings.
 
So can you tell me what a successful lexit, whatever term is preferred I don't mind, would look like?
A slight increase in the number of essays pontificating on the opportunities existing in the post Brexit landscape that others should work out how to take advantage of.
 
I keep reading on here about the Working Class-ness of the brexit vote and its weird because i live in the middle of a really smug affluent bit of middle England which voted leave, its as if you are ignoring all of my neighbours, the whole village full of retired accountants and national trust members in their vastly overpriced quaint cottages with their stupid bunting still up. Both the archetypes are stupid fictions i dont get why people feel the need to keep pushing them.

Yeah, the Leave/Remain voters can be broken down into all kind of subgroups, with the Leave majorities including young people, Black people, Scottish people, Londoners, Scousers, and an astonishing 97% of people who insist on pronouncing "ciabbata" correctly.

As I've probably said on this thread before, the vote by class would probably have looked a lot closer if the barriers to citizenship for the million of working-class people from Eastern Europe who had made their homes in Britain before 2016 weren't so high.
 
Back
Top Bottom