A thank you to Brexiteers.
- Thread starter MrSki
- Start date
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
VL knew exactly what they were doing; positing the NHS as one half of a zero-sum game was only ever going to influence many people.
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
sadly yes
philosophical
Well-Known Member
It was on the bus like a Mail headline.
Plenty believe it like they thought pre the last election that a great settled deal had been done.
One great big clue that lexiters were not influenced by, was that the likes of Mark Francois were their fellow travellers.
I know the pig fucker was a remainer but in a binary choice it was him or Farage,
No contest.
Plenty believe it like they thought pre the last election that a great settled deal had been done.
One great big clue that lexiters were not influenced by, was that the likes of Mark Francois were their fellow travellers.
I know the pig fucker was a remainer but in a binary choice it was him or Farage,
No contest.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
People are stupid, basically?
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
The bus was made in the EU so it's obviously a liar
not a trot
Well-Known Member
And getting rid of human rights. They really do believe that human rights are something the EU foisted upon us.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Offered a zero-sum choice between the NHS, which people know, use, depend upon and love, and the remote suprastate that folk tend(ed) to know fuck all about, there was nothing stupid about their 'choice'.
ska invita
back on the other side
People are influenced by propaganda and campaigning otherwise why would anyone spend millions doing it?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
BobDavis
Gimme All Your Lovin’
I know several racist morons who were my truck driving colleagues. They all voted leave. I know plenty of leave voters who are ok though & they were not influenced by anything in the campaign. They would have voted leave anytime this century or last had they been given the chance which they were in the end. Their minds have not changed. Any obvious disadvantages of brexit they dismiss as “well of course they were always going to punish us”. I can’t see them changing their minds. Why would they ?
This is how some people feel. They voted leave for emotional reasons not because they did the maths. I voted remain for emotional reasons. I liked being part of one big Europe. I have the day to day experience of travelling in Europe in the course of my truck driving work & I have always enjoyed driving my car in Europe going to places that you don’t really get to in a weeks package tour. My lifetime experience of Europe caused me to vote remain. Brexit has caused me some emotional distress but it has not really affected my day to day life as a w/c pensioner. Having my passport stamped arriving in France this year made me feel no longer European but my actual experience of my time in France was not really changed by brexit it was just in my head.
Fact is where I live over 7 out of 10 voters voted leave. Most of them are not morons they are people I have known for decades. Sane reasonable friendly people. I have to accept they did not value EU membership like I did. It is not going to ruin the rest of my life though. We need a more left wing socialist government not to take us back in the EU but to start to solve the problems in this country.
This is how some people feel. They voted leave for emotional reasons not because they did the maths. I voted remain for emotional reasons. I liked being part of one big Europe. I have the day to day experience of travelling in Europe in the course of my truck driving work & I have always enjoyed driving my car in Europe going to places that you don’t really get to in a weeks package tour. My lifetime experience of Europe caused me to vote remain. Brexit has caused me some emotional distress but it has not really affected my day to day life as a w/c pensioner. Having my passport stamped arriving in France this year made me feel no longer European but my actual experience of my time in France was not really changed by brexit it was just in my head.
Fact is where I live over 7 out of 10 voters voted leave. Most of them are not morons they are people I have known for decades. Sane reasonable friendly people. I have to accept they did not value EU membership like I did. It is not going to ruin the rest of my life though. We need a more left wing socialist government not to take us back in the EU but to start to solve the problems in this country.
philosophical
Well-Known Member
Did they value relative peace in Ireland?
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Is it possible that they are influenced by other things as well?
ska invita
back on the other side
Of course - our political opinions are informed by many factors.
But propaganda and campaigning about the EU was relentless for years, peaking before the vote. It would be ridiculous to say this was inconsequential
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
I don’t think anyone is saying that it was inconsequential.
BobDavis
Gimme All Your Lovin’
Ireland was not even on their radar I doubt. Nor is it now. Ireland is very far away from Essex. Most people have to work so they have a couple of weeks to go on holiday so they will go to Spain & not Ireland. Most people I know have never been to Ireland. I have but only in my truck. There was never a problem with GB truck drivers delivering in Ireland even during the troubles.
In my view relative peace in Ireland will continue. The trajectory will to be towards a united Ireland happening at some future point. I don’t see that as a bad thing & I doubt would most GB leave voters would either. I doubt the UK government will do anything drastic like abandoning the protocol. They know perfectly well to keep their voters on side there needs to be no disruption of people’s day to day lives as there might be if they started a trade war with the EU. The EU does not want that either so there will be the usual fudge. This is why Johnson’s deal was so rubbish in the first place. He knew it was the best he could get & anything else would be worse. It is difficult to negotiate from a position of good to something as least worse as possible because it does not really make sense to those involved in the negotiations.
I think you & some other posters need to let it go. Nobody is going to say “sorry it was all a mistake let’s wipe out the past 5 yrs & rejoin then things will get back to normal”. It is possible we may rejoin EU but it will be decades away if it does happen. Probably not in my lifetime.
philosophical
Well-Known Member
From my perspective I let the result go when it happened.
My focus has been on the practical issues in the light of what has been called a democratic decision.
I was intrigued by your phrase ‘usual fudge’ and I am doubtful if everybody is content with a fudge, or if it turns out to be ‘democratic’.
I have mentioned before that there may be a desire in some quarters to turn a blind eye to difficulties, but I think a fudge in Ireland is unsustainable.
I also have my doubts whether in current circumstances the road to a United Ireland will be a peaceful one.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
BobDavis
Gimme All Your Lovin’
From where I am most people cannot really see why the protocol is even needed or what the fuss is about. I don’t think it really registers with most that brexit has resulted in a customs border within the UK. By a fudge I mean that both sides know the protocol will have to continue so there will be have to be compromise on both sides but that is the only way of maintaining an open border on the island of Ireland so there is no alternative really. As I said for most their vote either way was an emotional decision. They are not really interested in the detail. This government is betraying the brexit voters in plenty of ways. Whenever I point this out to people there is little interest. They just want to move on.
Only way it might change is if the Tories do eventually lose their majority & UK rejoins customs union. Is that likely to happen though ? I doubt that would be anywhere near the top of an incoming alternative government’s agenda. We would have to pay handsomely for the privilege. I think it would be almost as politically impossible as rejoining EU.
philosophical
Well-Known Member
If they're not interested in the detail, then a blue passport and brexit in name only would be enough?
Somehow I doubt it, after all the vote was accepted with all the detail regarding the numbers, and I think the emotional decision as you put it is a territory that can be exploited anyway.
They say the devil is in the detail whether those who voted leave like it or not.
Somehow I doubt it, after all the vote was accepted with all the detail regarding the numbers, and I think the emotional decision as you put it is a territory that can be exploited anyway.
They say the devil is in the detail whether those who voted leave like it or not.
Busted flush
put them on the red list. 
Similar threads
