A thank you to Brexiteers.
- Thread starter MrSki
- Start date
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
I wonder where and to who the invisible and untaxable backhander for this is being paid.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Don’t want to be picky but I’m a little confused about this post and your previous tbh.
Firstly strikes are not ‘the traditional way the left creates a labour shortage in the hope of raising labour conditions’ . Strikes are normally the withdrawal of labour by working class organisations. There are exceptions to this ie the have been strikes by middle class organisations . The tactic of the strike has been led by organisations not on the left , and indeed there are examples where strikes have had a completely reactionary nature. The whole difference between political parties and unions is that the former are composed of people who agree a political direction whereas trade unions are open to all. The working class is not a given for the left, it is a contested ground . Those who normally assume or want to take for granted that unions and the working class are naturally left are normally naive ie the Labour Party ‘they have nowhere else to go’, Tory anti union types or somewhat excitable folk who do a few years activism then write off the W/class because it doesn’t measure up to their theory and what they would like the working class to be.
Secondly far from strikes being ‘the traditional way the left creates a labour shortage in the hope of raising labour conditions’ , most strikes over the past decade and probably further back have been ( and the majority in this present period ) are defensive strikes ie sackings, deskilling, fire and hire , redundancies. This is to defend labour conditions rather than to improve them. Wage militancy / shorter working hours etc isn’t something generally that we hear about these days. Defensive strikes rarely have anything to do with labour shortages in fact many are to do with companies or the public sector shedding labour as to reduce cost, hence exactly the opposite of a labour shortage.
Strikes themselves are generally sectional and therefore improvements are ‘narrowly distributed ‘. However, I would imagine that what ever attempts are made to make improvements in pay or working conditions ‘short term ‘ will be resisted more fiercely by those who have taken industrial action to get them.
I think I can see the overall point you are attempting to make , that is that if we had fighting trade unions then lorry drivers , some hospitality workers, some agricultural and retail workers wouldn’t have had to rely on a blend of Brexit , covid , after enduring decades of a the race to the bottom in deskilling and working conditions , to get a wage rise .
However I think you need to go back to why we haven’t got widespread fighting unions, rank and file activism in workplaces and haven’t had since the defeat of the miners, steel workers, press workers and engineering workers etc under Thatcher.
For me the emergence of the non traditional unions and Sheila Grahame’s election might mean that we see a little more of ‘the awkward squad’ rather than the dross we got following the capitulation of the TUC , after the miners strike , into being part of Delors ‘social contract’
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TopCat
Putin fanboy
You don’t trust the tories to protect workers rights and neither do I, it’s absurd.Am sure the #ToryScum will make sure worker's are treated fairly
While they and their mates keep their filthy money offshore
It is constantly asserted though that the EU are big protectors of workers rights whilst that’s ridiculous. They expand into poorer countries to systematically exploit their labour.
Yossarian
⏭️
Denmark’s meat processors have achieved better pay & conditions than neighbouring countries, it’s almost as if EU membership or not isn’t actually the most important thing in any of this.
‘We have to fight for these conditions’: why Danish meat plant workers are Europe’s best paid
Denmark has secured decent pay and conditions within the sector. Will other EU countries finally follow suit?www.theguardian.com
While meat companies in Denmark can use workers sourced via agencies and subcontractors, workers must be paid the same wages as directly employed staff, hence there is no financial benefit for companies who source workers from intermediaries
All workers in beef and pork factories are represented by trade unions, according to the food union NNF, and they work under collective agreements.
These definitely sound like steps in the right direction - though another important step would be action against meat imports from places with unacceptable working conditions, which could be hard to achieve, given the lack of will for ending slavery in the seafood industry.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Take them over? They don’t want to do that but exploit their labour to keep profits high and inflation low yes.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Greece being a very good example .
Supine
Newt Member
Not really. I don’t think large numbers of Greeks went to work cheaply elsewhere in Europe.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I'm pretty sure the benefits of any country joining the EU aren't shared equally among all its citizens, and neither are the costs of the exploitation.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Seem to recall at a talk I went to that during the recession 2005/6 - 2011 that the born in Greek population decreased by around half a million . Perhaps you are right. Perhaps they just died during the recession . Who cares ?
Supine
Newt Member
A sixth of the population emigrated in 1893 due to the cost of currents falling. A million moved out after ww2. Simply blaming the EU for this kind of thing is narrow minded. The assumption that all immigrants are exploited is also just plain lazy.
bimble
floofy
Lazy and also incredibly paternalistic, like aren’t we brexiteers benevolent and good, for rescuing all those poor Bulgarians from exploitation by removing their choice to come here.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I didn’t make any such assumption , merely pointed out that you were , as you are, incorrect about the impact of the recession in Greece on its working population.
Supine
Newt Member
Nobody was talking about the Greek recession, which is a different subject. Plenty of threads on that already i think.
Yossarian
⏭️
A lot of educated Greeks left the country to work in Australia, the US, Germany etc., and the already very low birthrate declined further during the recession - but there doesn't seem to have been a big outflow of Greeks emigrating to work cheaply in chicken plants in Britain etc.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Well at least you and me are talking about the Greek recession .
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I don’t know much about Drakeford, but my Dad hates him so much I reckon he must be ok.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Heeding working-class voices on Brexit and labour shortages | Letters
Letters: Jonny Marsh and Mike Whittaker on how the exodus of EU workers has contributed to the problems being faced in a range of sectors in the UK
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You can already see what pitiful creatures our remaining politicians are now they don't have Brussels to call on for supportHeeding working-class voices on Brexit and labour shortages | Letters
Letters: Jonny Marsh and Mike Whittaker on how the exodus of EU workers has contributed to the problems being faced in a range of sectors in the UK
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Eats sprouts and leaves
bimble
floofy
"Ministers are discussing plans to ease visa restrictions to allow up to 1,000 foreign butchers into the country, The Times has been told. Priti Patel, the home secretary, is resisting the move however.."
Strange days, when your post-brexit workers rights hopes (and pigs in blankets) hinge on Priti Patel staying strong.
www.thetimes.co.uk
Strange days, when your post-brexit workers rights hopes (and pigs in blankets) hinge on Priti Patel staying strong.
Visas for foreign butchers as industry warns of Christmas shortages
Britain is facing a shortage of butchers amid warnings that pigs in blankets, hams and party foods will be scarce this Christmas.Ministers are discussing pl
www.thetimes.co.uk
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Heeding working-class voices on Brexit and labour shortages | Letters
Letters: Jonny Marsh and Mike Whittaker on how the exodus of EU workers has contributed to the problems being faced in a range of sectors in the UK
On Question Time last night you had the Tory arguing for higher wages for drivers while the Labour MP (Wes Streeting), and a Lord representing the CBI, were calling for the re-establishment of a pool of cheap labour via immigration.
Heady times…
editor
hiraethified
Remind me how Brexit has changed all that for the better.
Low pay, long hours, broken dreams: working at Europe’s biggest meat exporter
Temporary staff at meat plants in the Netherlands share none of the success of the booming industry as agencies withhold pay and threaten eviction
The reality of free movement. Of capital, of people, of goods.
Yossarian
⏭️
I wonder how much they'll sweeten the deal before they realise that EU drivers haven't been sleeping in their cabs all year, eating beans and praying for the day when the Promised Land relaxes its immigration rules.
WTF
www.independent.co.uk
Government asks German residents to drive lorries even if they never have before
Exclusive: German driving licences issued before 1999 include entitlement to drive a small to medium-sized truck of up to 7.5 tonnes
www.independent.co.uk
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