A thank you to Brexiteers.

[sleaterkinney]

This deserves its own thread rather than being lost in this stupid one, as it could actually generate some worthwhile discussion. Anyway, I suppose The Guardian link alone will suffice for this thread's purposes.

Thread here:

The GM debate

Posted because one of the brexit dividends turns out to be GM. https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/29/genetically-modified-food-a-step-closer-in-england-as-laws-relaxed?__twitter_impression=true People have been selectively breeding crops and animals for thousands of years, Most...

www.urban75.net

 

[ska invita]

This deserves its own thread rather than being lost in this stupid one, as it could actually generate some worthwhile discussion. Anyway, I suppose The Guardian link alone will suffice for this thread's purposes.

It's starting... "Deregulation, cutting red tape"

To chart the articles and attempts to withdraw workers rights mooted in the papers, and probably discussed in cabinet. Going to be fun times ahead for the poorest in society. - Now the vote is over, let's move on with six steps to a bright future We should scrap EU-mandated labour market...

www.urban75.net

?

 

[MrSki]

A view from Germany.

 

[Anju]

The introduction from an excellent report linked to in the article TopCat posted.

"On the killing beds you were apt to be cov-
ered with blood, and it would freeze solid; if
you leaned against a pillar, you would freeze
to that, and if you put your hand upon the
blade of your knife, you would run a chance
of leaving your skin on it."
Upton Sinclair’s classic American novel
The Jungle, the story of an immigrant fam-
ily from Lithuania working in the abattoirs
of Chicago, was published in 1906 to both
critical acclaim and public outrage due to
its unflinching portrayal of the dire condi-
tions in a meat industry dominated by big
business and rife with exploitation and un-
sanitary practices"

Report looks mostly at
German meat processing industry and how workers power, pay and conditions have been eroded over the last 30 years. Some stuff on other EU countries and how collective bargaining has offered protection in some but been circumvented in others. Also looks at a new law in Germany that will outlaw subcontracting in the industry and briefly at other measures EU wide.

Bonus points for the Mafia comparison.

I missed too many pages of this thread to catch up so not sure how it got to meat but there is a bit of information on what the EU is doing to address some of the exploitative practices migrant workers face. I get that it won't be enough, will take too long and things won't necessarily be enforced but also can't see things here getting any better. Work visas just increase the potential for employers to exploit people.

https://www.etui.org/sites/default/files/2021-05/HM23_Change a long time coming for subcontracted slaughterhouse workers_2021_0.pdf

 

[TopCat]

A view from Germany.

Yeah the Germans can continue to exploit east European truck drivers and we are stupid for no longer doing so.

 

[TopCat]

Low pay, long hours, broken dreams: working at Europe’s biggest meat exporter

Temporary staff at meat plants in the Netherlands share none of the success of the booming industry as agencies withhold pay and threaten eviction

www.theguardian.com

The reality of free movement. Of capital, of people, of goods.

 

[krtek a houby]

A view from Germany.

"Brexit island'

 

[The39thStep]

Yeah the Germans can continue to exploit east European truck drivers and we are stupid for no longer doing so.

Proud civic duty in the EU

 

[bimble]

Some people here seem to genuinely think that as a result of the tory brexit this country, led by Boris Johnson, is about to embark on a new less exploitative economy where workers are treated better than they are in nasty places like Germany. I think this is sweet.

 

[brogdale]

Base and superstructure.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Some people here seem to genuinely think that as a result of the tory brexit this country, led by Boris Johnson, is about to embark on a new less exploitative economy where workers are treated better than they are in nasty places like Germany. I think this is sweet.

"We can trust Russia and China because they aren't The Imperial American Empire" taken to its logical conclusion.

 

[bimble]

i've heard that united arab emirates manages to do an outstanding job of exploiting temporary migrant workers (who are the vast majority of the people who do any work there) without even being in the EU.
Australia apparently also relies on an extremely oppressed migrant workforce to do its meat processing, but people think brexit means the UK will be different. Why?

 

[krtek a houby]

Some people here seem to genuinely think that as a result of the tory brexit this country, led by Boris Johnson, is about to embark on a new less exploitative economy where workers are treated better than they are in nasty places like Germany. I think this is sweet.

 

[bimble]

Denmark’s meat processors have achieved better pay & conditions than neighbouring countries, it’s almost as if EU membership or not isn’t actually the most important thing in any of this.

‘We have to fight for these conditions’: why Danish meat plant workers are Europe’s best paid

Denmark has secured decent pay and conditions within the sector. Will other EU countries finally follow suit?

www.theguardian.com

 

[ska invita]

Low pay, long hours, broken dreams: working at Europe’s biggest meat exporter

Temporary staff at meat plants in the Netherlands share none of the success of the booming industry as agencies withhold pay and threaten eviction

www.theguardian.com

The reality of free movement. Of capital, of people, of goods.

...ah for that long historic utopia of workers conditions before we were in the EU. When down the mine you only worked with your neighbour....

all along the brexit debate the case was made that its not too many workers that are the problem, its a lack of union fight that is the problem - better conditions for all. was that wrong?


theres a deeper history of movement of workers: from the commons to the factories, from the fields to the cities, from the north to the south, from the corners to the centre, from the regions to the capital.

I'm not sure where the logic of sending people back by restricting their movement ends

 

[Yossarian]

The introduction from an excellent report linked to in the article TopCat posted.

"On the killing beds you were apt to be cov-
ered with blood, and it would freeze solid; if
you leaned against a pillar, you would freeze
to that, and if you put your hand upon the
blade of your knife, you would run a chance
of leaving your skin on it."
Upton Sinclair’s classic American novel
The Jungle, the story of an immigrant fam-
ily from Lithuania working in the abattoirs
of Chicago, was published in 1906 to both
critical acclaim and public outrage due to
its unflinching portrayal of the dire condi-
tions in a meat industry dominated by big
business and rife with exploitation and un-
sanitary practices"

Sad thing about The Jungle is that Sinclair, a socialist, wrote it to expose the many ways in which immigrant workers were exploited by factories, landlords, corrupt politicians, etc. but the part that outraged people and led to changes was his description of unsanitary practices in the meat industry. "I aimed at the public's heart, and by accident I hit it in the stomach," he said.

 

[philosophical]

If harking back to the past is allowed then it might be worth pointing out the pre EU wars with the French and Germans and Dutch and others, and the impact of being in the EU that has helped make Ireland more peaceful.
Working conditions is not the whole agenda.

 

[The39thStep]

After endless photos of supermarket shelves and queues of cars and the daily social media posts checking on empty shelves and queues of cars hopefully photos of circuses without clowns is the next big FBPE thing.

"Because all the circuses in Europe and in England have been up and operational for the past six months, that huge pool of EU artists are already back at work and up until last week we haven't been able to even get visas issued for non-EU artists and entertainers," Mr Duffy said.

Clown shortage: Appeal for new recruits in Northern Ireland

The Covid-19 pandemic has been blamed for many clowns returning to their home countries.

www.bbc.com

 

[Yossarian]

"Overwhelming surplus of clowns in Westminster causes NI clown shortage"

 

[The39thStep]

Base and superstructure.

 

[dessiato]

According to my sister, just now, all the EU drivers can come and take driving jobs, there's no restrictions on people moving in and out of the UK. She cannot be persuaded otherwise.

 

[The39thStep]

According to my sister, just now, all the EU drivers can come and take driving jobs, there's no restrictions on people moving in and out of the UK. She cannot be persuaded otherwise.

I've just spent a week with my sister over here and that has confirmed my long held view that sisters opinions on most things are to be taken with a large pinch of salt.

 

[not a trot]

Some people here seem to genuinely think that as a result of the tory brexit this country, led by Boris Johnson, is about to embark on a new less exploitative economy where workers are treated better than they are in nasty places like Germany. I think this is sweet.

Workers are going to have the right to 'ask' for things like flexible working hours etc. Ask and be told to fuck off.

 

[Ax^]

of course you can ask for flexible hour

just not in the first 2 year when it easier to sack you because of previously implemented Tory policy

now the furlough scheme has end let just see how the demonisation of the unemployed ramps up to force people to filled the skills gap

be shipping people to work farms to save Christmas

 

[Badgers]

Low pay, long hours, broken dreams: working at Europe’s biggest meat exporter

Temporary staff at meat plants in the Netherlands share none of the success of the booming industry as agencies withhold pay and threaten eviction

www.theguardian.com

The reality of free movement. Of capital, of people, of goods.

Am sure the #ToryScum will make sure worker's are treated fairly

While they and their mates keep their filthy money offshore

 

[The39thStep]

Not sure, aside from keeping the EU flag flying on Twitter hashtags, or voting LibDem/Green/SNP etc, where Remainers in the Labour Party have to go, to be honest. Starmer and co have led the second referendum troops up the garden path.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not sure, aside from keeping the EU flag flying on Twitter hashtags, or voting LibDem/Green/SNP etc, where Remainers in the Labour Party have to go, to be honest. Starmer and co have led the second referendum troops up the garden path.

perhaps 'we in the labour party seek greater cooperation with our european neighbours, both within the eu and indeed in efta'. but i wouldn't trust any of them to tell the day of the week

 

[ska invita]

I guess removing, let's say, a couple of million workers, by taking away a group of people's rights is one way to create a labour shortage

A strike is the traditional way the left creates a labour shortage in the hope of raising working conditions.

The politics of a strike are explicit. The politics of removing rights is dubious.

I guess in the absence of an effective union movement this removal of rights is something, I just can't imagine it being effective beyond small areas of the economy, and it's done so on political grounds of nationalism. Even though the rights of everyone in the host nation have also been reduced.

Any improvements in pay and conditions seem short term and narrowly distributed to me, but worse what is the political legacy? What lessons get learned? A union victory now builds for the future...whereas a victory based on expelling those deemed foreign?

 

[Badgers]

 

[krtek a houby]

Global Britain, hurrah, etc