Doodler
You're quite nice when you smile
Some things we're not meant to know.
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5G networks - safety, conspiracies and moron cell tower attacks
- Thread starter Maggot
- Start date
Some things we're not meant to know.
Doodler
You're quite nice when you smile
Peak Icke.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Lurdan
old wave
Not really sure where to stick this (Now now that's not very nice)
It's not quite the same thing that our 5G 'Mast'-ers of the Looniverse are doing burning down cell towers.
And yet...
'Anarchoids' of some kind in Berlin attack the power lines serving a building which amongst other things is the base for one of the companies working on a smart phone "Corona-App". This is, of course, the pretext for them issuing a COMMUNIQUE to explain why. And other Anarchoids promptly translate the COMMUNIQUE into English.
Berlin, Germany: Arson Sabotage Attack Against Developers of the New “Corona-App” - Anarchists Worldwide
I have a complicated mixture of feelings about this sort of thing. It's pretty 'old school' 'exemplary actions' 'get the masses attention by breaking stuff' and then 'educate them' gesture politics. Within left and anarchist currents in this country it's about as unfashionable as can be. I'm old enough that I can recall when that wasn't the case back in the 70s, and like everyone touched, directly or indirectly, by some of the consequences of that, I 'drew lessons'. There's lots of things about the 70s I don't miss and some of them are right here.
Obviously concerns about governments and corporations grasping the opportunities provided by the pandemic to expand their reach aren't at all crazy, even if conspiraloons do also take those concerns up. The politics of this COMMUNIQUE are in a specific tradition within German anarchoid and neo-maoist currents of opposing the Surveillance State. Here in the UK those sorts of concerns, and genuine research into the institutions and mechanisms of power have been largely abandoned to civil liberties types. I think that's regrettable and a bit stupid (conspiraloons have been very happy to exploit the void) but there you go.
In practical terms, while I don't underestimate the ability of Boris and his clown car of incompetents and disruptors to cunt us about, laying the foundations for the Social Panopticon via. mandatory smart phone apps isn't going to happen on their watch. Outside the specific context of managing those of us who aren't in the middle strata of society, they are hostile to this kind of approach (the party inclined to the broad application of this sort of stuff is of course Labour). The voluntary NHS app they are working on may or may not get beyond the announcement phase. But a Government which visibly can't meet its own targets on the most basic shit would struggle with the logistics of a mandatory app, even if it was on board with that project.
(My own response in the unlikely event of mandatory apps - and in this order - would be
1. Good luck getting that on my Nokia 2600. You're going to have to give me a new phone
2. How can I mitigate or block what I don't like about this
3. What devilry can I get up to with this
And as regard 2 and 3 I would not be alone).
It's not quite the same thing that our 5G 'Mast'-ers of the Looniverse are doing burning down cell towers.
And yet...
'Anarchoids' of some kind in Berlin attack the power lines serving a building which amongst other things is the base for one of the companies working on a smart phone "Corona-App". This is, of course, the pretext for them issuing a COMMUNIQUE to explain why. And other Anarchoids promptly translate the COMMUNIQUE into English.
Berlin, Germany: Arson Sabotage Attack Against Developers of the New “Corona-App” - Anarchists Worldwide
I have a complicated mixture of feelings about this sort of thing. It's pretty 'old school' 'exemplary actions' 'get the masses attention by breaking stuff' and then 'educate them' gesture politics. Within left and anarchist currents in this country it's about as unfashionable as can be. I'm old enough that I can recall when that wasn't the case back in the 70s, and like everyone touched, directly or indirectly, by some of the consequences of that, I 'drew lessons'. There's lots of things about the 70s I don't miss and some of them are right here.
Obviously concerns about governments and corporations grasping the opportunities provided by the pandemic to expand their reach aren't at all crazy, even if conspiraloons do also take those concerns up. The politics of this COMMUNIQUE are in a specific tradition within German anarchoid and neo-maoist currents of opposing the Surveillance State. Here in the UK those sorts of concerns, and genuine research into the institutions and mechanisms of power have been largely abandoned to civil liberties types. I think that's regrettable and a bit stupid (conspiraloons have been very happy to exploit the void) but there you go.
In practical terms, while I don't underestimate the ability of Boris and his clown car of incompetents and disruptors to cunt us about, laying the foundations for the Social Panopticon via. mandatory smart phone apps isn't going to happen on their watch. Outside the specific context of managing those of us who aren't in the middle strata of society, they are hostile to this kind of approach (the party inclined to the broad application of this sort of stuff is of course Labour). The voluntary NHS app they are working on may or may not get beyond the announcement phase. But a Government which visibly can't meet its own targets on the most basic shit would struggle with the logistics of a mandatory app, even if it was on board with that project.
(My own response in the unlikely event of mandatory apps - and in this order - would be
1. Good luck getting that on my Nokia 2600. You're going to have to give me a new phone
2. How can I mitigate or block what I don't like about this
3. What devilry can I get up to with this
And as regard 2 and 3 I would not be alone).
UK moves to drop Huawei as 5G vendor, citing China coronavirus transparency
The UK is moving to drop Huawei as a vendor for the country’s 5G cellphone network in a major blow to Communist China over poor coronavirus transparency. Prime Minister Boris Johnson, now rec…
nypost.com
Has Icke claimed any sort of victory yet?
cupid_stunt
Where's the bloody sun?
UK moves to drop Huawei as 5G vendor, citing China coronavirus transparency
The UK is moving to drop Huawei as a vendor for the country’s 5G cellphone network in a major blow to Communist China over poor coronavirus transparency. Prime Minister Boris Johnson, now rec…
Has Icke claimed any sort of victory yet?
The NY post is a Murdoch rag, as reliable as The Sun, i.e. not in anyway.
editor
hiraethified
Yep. It's a real sensationalist rag for idiots. All their front pages are as dumb as this.
Any better than The Grauniad?
Tarquin
New Member
I know some who works for the organisation behind the app and I believe it was ready to roll out before the government announcement. The papers had been floating about for weeks. I reckon it will go ahead but I also share your doubts it would be mandatory. Would be a bit more New Labour than a Tory thing.
editor
hiraethified
Don't piss about in this thread.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
bimble
floofy
It (the moon, the universe, our five senses, all of it) is a cunningly devised simulation silly, thats why. The moon's size is the giveaway they messed up the design flaw that gave the game away. Hope that's helped.
prunus
Tick tock.
Ahhhhhhhhhh, right, thanks, yes, the scales have fallen from my eyes now.
bimble
floofy
Might get destroyed for this but have been pondering the last couple of days whether there is something more interesting and compassionate to think about all this instead of 'look at this bunch of fucking idiots'.
I mean the tone of the conversation about the 5G covid conspiracists is a lot like the way that certain people talked about brexit supporters, with no attempt to address underlying causes for why people find it meaningful and empowering to think what they think, leaving aside are they 'right' or not.
Believing that the virus is related to 5g must serve a really useful function for people else it would not have caught on to this massive extent. Maybe its nothing more than the comfort of having an alternative story to just chaos and bad luck (a story with baddies in it) but also maybe its an expression of feeling disenfranchised by the speed of technological change etc?
I mean the tone of the conversation about the 5G covid conspiracists is a lot like the way that certain people talked about brexit supporters, with no attempt to address underlying causes for why people find it meaningful and empowering to think what they think, leaving aside are they 'right' or not.
Believing that the virus is related to 5g must serve a really useful function for people else it would not have caught on to this massive extent. Maybe its nothing more than the comfort of having an alternative story to just chaos and bad luck (a story with baddies in it) but also maybe its an expression of feeling disenfranchised by the speed of technological change etc?
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
You've answered your own question.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
It's definitely true that within that scene there's some people with explicable reasons as to why they're going on about what they do, and some of it (not including all the outright nasty and racist shit etc.) for sure is that they're vulnerable in some way, and/or that they've had some nasty shit in their past that has led them to that state, so I agree some level of compassion is not totally misplaced, even though it is very hard to have sometimes. I mean some of it has a religious tinge as well doesn't it, helping people have some sense of understanding and comfort in a chaotic and scary world?
Voley
🐭
A fair bit of this, I think, but there's a good chunk of getting to feel superior in there, too. All the 'sheeple' stuff.
Thing I'll never understand is why they want the world to be worse than it already is. Aren't things bad enough?
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
Having known some people who believe such things mainly through the psy trance scene I think most of them are just twats. The ones that spout shit about autism and vaccines are very likely to get a tough time from me, and because it very often comes down to being so negative about the condition.
On the other hand I know someone whose pretty far out there and he's been sending me loads of links to various views around covid-19, but I understand that it's coming from a good place so I just shrug.
On the other hand I know someone whose pretty far out there and he's been sending me loads of links to various views around covid-19, but I understand that it's coming from a good place so I just shrug.
mauvais
on reddit or something
In theory I'd love to talk to some of them and find out where they got not only their basis for this from, but such a sense of confidence, and whether things like having no background in the subject matter shouldn't trouble them and so on.
In reality it would no doubt be a terrible idea and the saying about wrestling a pig comes to mind.
In reality it would no doubt be a terrible idea and the saying about wrestling a pig comes to mind.
UnderOpenSky
baseline neural therapy
I've met a few. Sadly.
I normally get on my soap box and talk about inequality and how wealth is distributed and say you don't need bonkers conspiracies to see the world is a fucked up place. Unless they are so far gone they belive in lizards they often agree.
I normally get on my soap box and talk about inequality and how wealth is distributed and say you don't need bonkers conspiracies to see the world is a fucked up place. Unless they are so far gone they belive in lizards they often agree.
Looks like mobile phone mast vandalism has been going on for a while.
This article is from 2014:
This article is from 2014:
BBC Inside Out - Phone Masts: health risk?
We look at the arguement that mobile phone masts create a health hazard for the community
www.bbc.co.uk
NoXion
his soul is marching on
I get that people have explicable reasons for believing in shit like this, but the fact that a lot of it could be utterly destroyed by spending five minutes with the right textbook, as well as the incredible arrogance and elitism they often display (which is ironic considering how often these types wank on about "elites"), means that my sympathy for them has completely run out.
You see, they are the enlightened ones who see reality for what it truly is, and everyone else are mindless "sheeple" (another word those cunts love to use), you know, not really people at all. The bulk of humanity are seen as "NPCs", a dehumanising view which I think has very worrying implications. Or if you insist on being skeptical, you become one of those "paid disinfo agents", or you're a "shill". There is no such thing as sincere opposition, any counter-argument can only be motivated by some desire to defend the lizard masters.
Oh, and these filth have absolutely no compunction about getting their children involved with this shit. How many anti-vaxxers' kids have died because their parents were fucking stupid hippie cunts who thought that Krazy Konspiracy Kyle on Facebook had a better grasp of medicine than literally every qualified doctor on the goddamn planet? Then there's the fact that they don't just write endless reams of bullshit online, but also end up dragging other people into their crazy little world. How many grieving parents have had extra misery piled on top of them by being harassed by shitheads who thought they were "crisis actors"?
I'm pretty sure this kind of stuff has gotten a lot worse over the past two decades or so. It's not just some dude standing on a street corner with some nonsense written on a sandwich board, or some badly-printed periodical that's lucky to have the tiniest circulation figures. There are massive websites catering to this shit, there are endless groups on Facebook, and there are so many more ways there are for both true believers and grifters to bilk money out of their audiences. Who'd have guessed that getting up and leaving Plato's Cave would be so expensive?
You see, they are the enlightened ones who see reality for what it truly is, and everyone else are mindless "sheeple" (another word those cunts love to use), you know, not really people at all. The bulk of humanity are seen as "NPCs", a dehumanising view which I think has very worrying implications. Or if you insist on being skeptical, you become one of those "paid disinfo agents", or you're a "shill". There is no such thing as sincere opposition, any counter-argument can only be motivated by some desire to defend the lizard masters.
Oh, and these filth have absolutely no compunction about getting their children involved with this shit. How many anti-vaxxers' kids have died because their parents were fucking stupid hippie cunts who thought that Krazy Konspiracy Kyle on Facebook had a better grasp of medicine than literally every qualified doctor on the goddamn planet? Then there's the fact that they don't just write endless reams of bullshit online, but also end up dragging other people into their crazy little world. How many grieving parents have had extra misery piled on top of them by being harassed by shitheads who thought they were "crisis actors"?
I'm pretty sure this kind of stuff has gotten a lot worse over the past two decades or so. It's not just some dude standing on a street corner with some nonsense written on a sandwich board, or some badly-printed periodical that's lucky to have the tiniest circulation figures. There are massive websites catering to this shit, there are endless groups on Facebook, and there are so many more ways there are for both true believers and grifters to bilk money out of their audiences. Who'd have guessed that getting up and leaving Plato's Cave would be so expensive?
Lurdan
old wave
It's not only about individual dispositions to this stuff. It's also about people getting caught up in collective delusion within small groups or networks which then expand and reinforce and amplify what may have been pretty diverse individual starting points.
Doesn't mean it's not worth looking at individuals dispostions towards conspiracism of course, but I don't believe there are any simple explanations. Religious convictions can certainly be an element but then so can secular political and social convictions. The dividing line between the two can be thin.
I've known a hardcore conspiracist for years. By hardcore I don't mean he has a few wacky ideas. This is someone so far down the rabbit hole that he's come out the other side, gone round and started again. More than once. He's not a 'name' but I will occasionally see him in the backround in YouTube videos or on obscure message board threads. Last week I was idly browsing and put in his name and 5G. Sure enough.
Now while he is capable - as I know from experience - of being a fucking pain in the arse he's not a horrible person. While his motivations are in my opinion ultimately religious (long ago lapsed Roman Catholic moved off towards his own brew of dualism and personal revelation) they are also, in their way, basically 'socially conscious'. (To a fault. I'd say his primary problem is actually less the forms his quite genuine desire to 'sort bad things out' take, but his inability to 'start at home' and look after himself). Reference points would be things like Social Catholicism and John Pilger style activist liberalism. It's not a form of 'social consciousness' that relates to being genuinely social in his dealings with other people. He is if you like very 'elitist' in his conviction of the correctness of his views but he's not at all personally arrogant. There is a serious obsessiveness in his dedication to whatever the current cause is. I'd guess there is also a lot of loneliness since he's not really capable of sustaining social interaction.
I don't see him so often these days but I had a cup of coffee with him last year. Managed twenty minutes before he lost interest in actual conversation and I could tell he'd started thinking how he could introduce whatever the current hobby horse was. Time to make my excuses and leave.
He's just a single individual. I don't think there is one 'type' or one overarching explanation for a disposition to conspiracism. It's a bunch of different things which will then combine in different ways in different contexts. The game changer recently has been the internet and the networking possibilities it has created. I remember in the early 90s when my patience with this guy was very thin I wished he'd just fuck off and discover it. He did and for a long period he dropped out of sight. Well that wasn't going to last forever. And looking at things more generally today it's very much be careful what you wish for I guess.
Attitudes towards conspiracists ? I don't see the guy I'm talking about being anything like the fuckers exploiting conspiracism to make money, or exploiting it for political purposes (the racists adding the Chinese to the list, or adding metaphors about disease and infestation into the rhetoric, for example). But then generally I don't think someone having ideas I disagree with or, within limits, doing things I don't approve of necessarily makes them a cunt, or a sad cunt, let alone a fucking cunt. Truth be told I get much more pissed off with dog-collar wearing politico wankers than I do with some conspiraloons. That doesn't derive from some 'liberalism' on my part. And obviously it doesn't apply to some of the fuckers this thread is about.
Anyhow. This reminds me I was looking at a twitter thread last night that Bob from Brockley began in March and finished this week. It's about Coronavirus conspiracy theories in general, and it's certainly not in any way definitive, but it makes some points that touch on this. Archived as a web page here.
Doesn't mean it's not worth looking at individuals dispostions towards conspiracism of course, but I don't believe there are any simple explanations. Religious convictions can certainly be an element but then so can secular political and social convictions. The dividing line between the two can be thin.
I've known a hardcore conspiracist for years. By hardcore I don't mean he has a few wacky ideas. This is someone so far down the rabbit hole that he's come out the other side, gone round and started again. More than once. He's not a 'name' but I will occasionally see him in the backround in YouTube videos or on obscure message board threads. Last week I was idly browsing and put in his name and 5G. Sure enough.
Now while he is capable - as I know from experience - of being a fucking pain in the arse he's not a horrible person. While his motivations are in my opinion ultimately religious (long ago lapsed Roman Catholic moved off towards his own brew of dualism and personal revelation) they are also, in their way, basically 'socially conscious'. (To a fault. I'd say his primary problem is actually less the forms his quite genuine desire to 'sort bad things out' take, but his inability to 'start at home' and look after himself). Reference points would be things like Social Catholicism and John Pilger style activist liberalism. It's not a form of 'social consciousness' that relates to being genuinely social in his dealings with other people. He is if you like very 'elitist' in his conviction of the correctness of his views but he's not at all personally arrogant. There is a serious obsessiveness in his dedication to whatever the current cause is. I'd guess there is also a lot of loneliness since he's not really capable of sustaining social interaction.
I don't see him so often these days but I had a cup of coffee with him last year. Managed twenty minutes before he lost interest in actual conversation and I could tell he'd started thinking how he could introduce whatever the current hobby horse was. Time to make my excuses and leave.
He's just a single individual. I don't think there is one 'type' or one overarching explanation for a disposition to conspiracism. It's a bunch of different things which will then combine in different ways in different contexts. The game changer recently has been the internet and the networking possibilities it has created. I remember in the early 90s when my patience with this guy was very thin I wished he'd just fuck off and discover it. He did and for a long period he dropped out of sight. Well that wasn't going to last forever. And looking at things more generally today it's very much be careful what you wish for I guess.
Attitudes towards conspiracists ? I don't see the guy I'm talking about being anything like the fuckers exploiting conspiracism to make money, or exploiting it for political purposes (the racists adding the Chinese to the list, or adding metaphors about disease and infestation into the rhetoric, for example). But then generally I don't think someone having ideas I disagree with or, within limits, doing things I don't approve of necessarily makes them a cunt, or a sad cunt, let alone a fucking cunt. Truth be told I get much more pissed off with dog-collar wearing politico wankers than I do with some conspiraloons. That doesn't derive from some 'liberalism' on my part. And obviously it doesn't apply to some of the fuckers this thread is about.
Anyhow. This reminds me I was looking at a twitter thread last night that Bob from Brockley began in March and finished this week. It's about Coronavirus conspiracy theories in general, and it's certainly not in any way definitive, but it makes some points that touch on this. Archived as a web page here.
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