1914-18 : The Great Slaughter - Challenging A Year Of Myth Making.

[taffboy gwyrdd]

At time of writing am considering ways to challenge any and all myth making at all levels of media.

Obviously a blog and FB group are ideas, but would need big building, publicising and admin.

A twitter # of thegreatslaughter might be good for putting up facts.

Regular "On This Day" items about the politics and monitoring of establishment media items, documentaries, specials etc.

It's possible that there will be circumspection in MSM, but also possible that the main truths will be skated over : about the arms industry, nationalism, imperialism and related royals causing untold millions of deaths. Butcher Haig being on a £2 coin is not a good omen.

Please share ideas as well as facts of history/analysis on this thread.

Thank you.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I've not much time online over the next few days, will be keen to read people's thoughts when I have the chance.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

This is a solid seeming mainstream documentary series I've been watching.

The first ep gives well presented backdrop to the before/after of the Ferdinand assassination.

That's my opinion any how, interested to hear critique:

 

[JHE]

Myths? What myths do you expect to be propagated?

 

[stowpirate]

Is this history being rewritten to suit the current regime?

 

[toblerone3]

Some different opinions might be presented over the root causes of the First World War, but I don't think there will be a deliberate attempt to propogate myths in any conspiratorial way. What makes you so certain that you have access to the 'the truth' about the war anyway?

 

[Athos]

Myths? What myths do you expect to be propagated?

For a start, the myth that interests align around nationality rather than class i.e. that the interests of the British were opposed to the interests of the Germans. In reality, all the war offered working class people of either country was the chance to be slaughtered for an endeavour, the spoils of which they'd never receive. The interests of workers from both countries lay in peace; the interests of a tiny elite of capitalists lay in war.

The same idea is peddled today. Not only in respect of illegal wars, but in more subtle ways. Like the whole austerity drive; apparently, we're all in this together, and must all make sacrifices, now that times are hard. But, when the bankers who caused the crisis were doing well, it was every man for himself.

 

[Athos]

Is this history being rewritten to suit the current regime?

Not rewritten. The mythology around WWI remains largely the same. But it was a lie then, and still is now

 

[Athos]

Some different opinions might be presented over the root causes of the First World War, but I don't think there will be a deliberate attempt to propogate myths in any conspiratorial way. What makes you so certain that you have to the 'the truth' about the war anyway?

The myths have been propogated for 100 years. What makes you think this year will be any different? You think there'll be a sudden acknowledgement that millions of deaths would have been prevented if working class men on both sides had refused to fight, and that the only people to lose out by that would have been the capitalists and empire builders? Or that, having 'won' the war, times were harder than ever for the men returning from the trenches, whilst, in the meantime, a few had made fortunes from it?

 

[brogdale]

The myths have been propogated for 100 years. What makes you think this year will be any different? You think there'll be a sudden acknowledgement that millions of deaths would have been prevented if working class men on both sides had refused to fight, and that the only people to lose out by that would have been the capitalists and empire builders? Or that, having 'won' the war, times were harder than ever for the men returning from the trenches, whilst, in the meantime, a few had made fortunes from it?

Can't let this thread go on too long without a link to Bourne's great essay.

 

[toblerone3]

For a start, the myth that interests align around nationality rather than class i.e. that the interests of the British were opposed to the interests of the Germans.snip.........

So you expect that events and media organised to mark the centenary of the outbreak of the First World War will attempt to argue that the war shows that interests should be aligned along national lines.

If anything as the video above posted by Taffboy shows, they will, if anything, argue the exact opposite.

 

[toblerone3]

The myths have been propogated for 100 years. What makes you think this year will be any different? You think there'll be a sudden acknowledgement that millions of deaths would have been prevented if working class men on both sides had refused to fight, and that the only people to lose out by that would have been the capitalists and empire builders? Or that, having 'won' the war, times were harder than ever for the men returning from the trenches, whilst, in the meantime, a few had made fortunes from it?

That if working class men on both sides had refused to fight there would have been bad consequences is not a myth that is being propogated by anybody at all now. Nobody.

 

[Athos]

So you expect that events and media organised to mark the centenary of the outbreak of the First World War will attempt to argue that the war shows that interests should be aligned along national lines.

If anything as the video above posted by Taffboy shows, they will, if anything, argue the exact opposite.

Yes, I expect the centenary will be used by the establishment (including mainstream media) to bolster a sense of patriotism, which encourages the belief that interests align on national rather than class bases.

There will, of course, be dissenting voices, but they'll be a minority.

 

[Athos]

That if working class men on both sides had refused to fight there would have been bad consequences is not a myth that is being propogated by anybody at all now. Nobody.

What bad consequences?

 

[brogdale]

What bad consequences?

Unemployed headstone engravers?

 

[8ball]

What bad consequences?

engravers?[/quote]

They could have got up to all manner of mischief in those smoky little rooms above pubs...

 

[Athos]

They could have got up to all manner of mischief in those smoky little rooms above pubs...

A negative consequence for whom?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Is this history being rewritten to suit the current regime?

They don't need to re-write history. Changing the emphasis on the narrative is enough, so look for lots of "plucky little Britain against the world" narrative, minimising the contribution of France and Russia to the Entente bloc, and thoroughly ignoring our position as an imperial power.

 

[Athos]

They don't need to re-write history. Changing the emphasis on the narrative is enough, so look for lots of "plucky little Britain against the world" narrative, minimising the contribution of France and Russia to the Entente bloc, and thoroughly ignoring our position as an imperial power.

Good point. Although I've been guilty of that very thing on this thread. Of course, my references to Britain and Germany are a gross over-simplification, though the thrust of my posts remains valid.

 

[8ball]

A negative consequence for whom?

The people who sent them to their deaths.

 

[Brechin Sprout]

That if working class men on both sides had refused to fight there would have been bad consequences is not a myth that is being propogated by anybody at all now. Nobody.

But wear your poppy with "pride"

 

[butchersapron]

There's a network of radical history groups already organising around this. Here's the bumpf. There is a email list and all modern things.

(I can't remember it all but i have just remembered i have to get a film sorted)

 

[ViolentPanda]

Unemployed headstone engravers?

Monumental masons.

 

[treelover]

http://noglory.org/


I think counterfire have started this,

 

[treelover]

Anti-war activists, pacifists and others are challenging the narrative of the official programme marking the centenary of the first world war with an alternative range of activities, some of which have received government funds.
They include an event to remember conscientious objectors, which is being financed with £95,800 in lottery funding allocated to the pacifist organisation that distributes white poppies.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/08/anti-war-activists-ww1-centenary

Just see the DM when they become aware of this

 

[butchersapron]

And the BUF.

 

[stowpirate]

The people who sent them to their deaths.

Wind forward to WWII and Churhill's ill-fated Norwegian Campaign with him learning nothing from his experience in WWI Gallipoli Campaign. History just gets rewritten with vile people becoming figure heads.

 

[treelover]

Siegfried Sassoon, On Passing Through the New Menim Gate

Who will remember, passing through this Gate1,
The unheroic Dead who fed the guns?
Who shall absolve the foulness of their fate,—
Those doomed, conscripted, unvictorious ones?
Crudely renewed, the Salient holds its own.
Paid are its dim defenders by this pomp;
Paid, with a pile of peace-complacent stone,
The armies who endured that sullen swamp.
Here was the world’s worst wound. And here with pride
‘Their name liveth for ever,’ the Gateway claims.
Was ever an immolation so belied
As these intolerably nameless names?
Well might the Dead who struggled in the slime
Rise and deride this sepulchre of crime.

thought I would start the war poetry on the brutality and futility of it all, till it gets banned, though I don't think the thousands who attend the Menin Gate ceremonies every year agree with Sassoon about the gate.

my grandfather had a big piece of shrapnel lodged in his mouth from WW1

 

[butchersapron]

Wind forward to WWII and Churhill's ill-fated Norwegian Campaign with him learning nothing from his experience in WWI Gallipoli Campaign. History just gets rewritten with vile people becoming figure heads.

If you fixate on military fuck ups you remove the whole point of radical responses and give it back tho the Churchill's. They've got theirs - don't let them take ours.

 

[ChrisD]

Quakers around the country are creating resources to commemorate World War I. From writing plays, to creating peace education resources; from historical research to critiquing militarism in the present day.
On this page you will find some of the resources: http://www.quaker.org.uk/WWIresources