15 minute Cities , the latest conspiracy.

[Cloo]

Like a lot of these things (including lockdowns), an obvious rejoinder is 'Why would any government do this when it's/would be total economic disaster?' the conspiraloons are all like 'They do this because CONTROL!'

Honestly, worry about real actual things like controls on protest, not imaginary things caused by cartoon baddies going 'Yes! We want more control, mwahahaha!'

 

[lazythursday]

yeh let's build more homes on the paltry green spaces on estates

Well there are no perfect answers to these conundrums. Yes, urban dwellers need access to green space too. And densification shouldn't just mean trashing council estates - I know that's been the case in London.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Like a lot of these things (including lockdowns), an obvious rejoinder is 'Why would any government do this when it's/would be total economic disaster?' the conspiraloons are all like 'They do this because CONTROL!'

Honestly, worry about real actual things like controls on protest, not imaginary things caused by cartoon baddies going 'Yes! We want more control, mwahahaha!'

The fact these people rant and rave about all this stuff on the internet of all places, just shows they're not actually that worried about surveillance.

Like if I was some shadowy evil overlord operating out of the WEF's volcano lair, would I be happy about all these cunning fuckers who have figured out my evil plan blabbing about it on local newspaper comment threads? Or would I not use my limitless power and resources to have them disappeared?

 

[Yossarian]

Like a lot of these things (including lockdowns), an obvious rejoinder is 'Why would any government do this when it's/would be total economic disaster?' the conspiraloons are all like 'They do this because CONTROL!'

Honestly, worry about real actual things like controls on protest, not imaginary things caused by cartoon baddies going 'Yes! We want more control, mwahahaha!'

Yep, still waiting to hear what the endgame was supposed to be in forcing everyone to wear masks for the sole purpose of stealing their face freedom

 

[danny la rouge]

Yep, still waiting to hear what the endgame was supposed to be in forcing everyone to wear masks for the sole purpose of stealing their face freedom

Don’t you understand? It was to test if people would comply!

 

[lazythursday]

Don’t you understand? It was to test if people would comply!

Yes, it was to soften people up for The Plan that's now underway according to my local globalisation resistance sources (crazy Roy on the town Facebook group)

 

[marty21]

Yes, it was to soften people up for The Plan that's now underway according to my local globalisation resistance sources (crazy Roy on the town Facebook group)

Crazy Roy does great work

 

[Cloo]

I like the way these people seem to forget about (most) people having the ability to use their own judgement. Like we can easily see the difference between being asked to wear a mask to control an illness that they can clearly see evidence of around them is a somewhat different request to "Hey, just drop our hotline a call any time you hear someone criticise the government and we'll sort them out!"

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I like the way these people seem to forget about (most) people having the ability to use their own judgement. Like we can easily see the difference between being asked to wear a mask to control an illness that they can clearly see evidence of around them is a somewhat different request to "Hey, just drop our hotline a call any time you hear someone criticise the government and we'll sort them out!"

'Everyone else is stupid apart from me' is a big part of the appeal here isn't it.

 

[Storm Fox]

'Everyone else is stupid apart from me' is a big part of the appeal here isn't it.

Thanks to the internet, they can hear and see everyone else yelling from the top of Mt Stupid which boost their confidence more that they don't need to climb down the other side.

 

[emanymton]

I like the way these people seem to forget about (most) people having the ability to use their own judgement. Like we can easily see the difference between being asked to wear a mask to control an illness that they can clearly see evidence of around them is a somewhat different request to "Hey, just drop our hotline a call any time you hear someone criticise the government and we'll sort them out!"

The real irony is they would be the ones on the fucking phone all the time.

 

[BigTom]

The thing with the giant gates trapping you in your suburb, it's just another example of something completely made up that's now believed by thousands of people.

It almost makes you want to actually have a talk with one of these people. Ask them where they got their information from. Ask them about a few of the reasons why what they're saying is obviously insane. Doubt it would be productive though. They'd just lose their shit and scream that you were one of 'them' whoever the fuck 'they' are.

I've tried with the approach "you've been lied to about..."

It hasn't worked. Not had anyone be like "oh yeah Oxford isn't introducing permits that mean you can't leave your home District more than 100 times, I was lied to"

I have had someone tell me they knows it's not true but wouldn't it be mad if it is and when pushed they said actually they believed it was going to happen and to look for the man behind the curtain.
I asked them how long they wanted before they would accept that nothing of the sort was going to happen but answer came there none.

They've already committed to a paranoid world view and nothing you say will change that.
You might get accused of being an illuminati mind control agent though.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Also Edward Snowden told us all how it actually is. And we ignored him. Lol.


Sent from my iPhone.

 

[8ball]

I’m lucky to live in a place where just about everything I need is pretty much on my doorstep and multiple modes of public transport are available for trips a little further afield. I lived without a car for decades.

It seems like a toss-up between building livable places and making public transport cheaper and more accessible vs. pissing people off by choking the road networks in their barren car-dependent areas.

I know, let’s pretend we’re doing the former and actually do the latter. It’s way cheaper.

We don’t live in those places so we can sit on the sidelines and sneer at those people who don’t like what’s happening, bloody troglodytic povvoes, the lot of ‘em.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I've tried with the approach "you've been lied to about..."

It hasn't worked. Not had anyone be like "oh yeah Oxford isn't introducing permits that mean you can't leave your home District more than 100 times, I was lied to"

I have had someone tell me they knows it's not true but wouldn't it be mad if it is and when pushed they said actually they believed it was going to happen and to look for the man behind the curtain.
I asked them how long they wanted before they would accept that nothing of the sort was going to happen but answer came there none.

They've already committed to a paranoid world view and nothing you say will change that.
You might get accused of being an illuminati mind control agent though.

This stuff is basically infinitely flexible isn't it. It doesn't matter if something doesn't happen because they seem able to roll onto the next thing absolutely seamlessly without any reflection whatever. Most of these were probably the ones who were sure Covid lockdowns were going to be permanent a couple of years ago but they're not wondering how that never happened.

 

[8ball]

Yep, still waiting to hear what the endgame was supposed to be in forcing everyone to wear masks for the sole purpose of stealing their face freedom

To train the AI algorithms how to recognise the faces of masked protesters.

No, really, I've actually heard this.

 

[8ball]

Don’t you understand? It was to test if people would comply!

Tbf it was very interesting to see how much compliance there was, and how willingly people divided themselves into compliers and resisters, and I'm sure a lot has been learned from this.

 

[8ball]

I have had someone tell me they knows it's not true but wouldn't it be mad if it is and when pushed they said actually they believed it was going to happen and to look for the man behind the curtain.
I asked them how long they wanted before they would accept that nothing of the sort was going to happen but answer came there none.

They've already committed to a paranoid world view and nothing you say will change that.
You might get accused of being an illuminati mind control agent though.

Was this a known loon or a formerly relatively normal person?

 

[Cloo]

'Everyone else is stupid apart from me' is a big part of the appeal here isn't it.

I've always felt that - and I also feel that believing nothing from 'authority' is just as dumb as believing everything, and feeling a need to question every single thing is just as bad as not questioning anything. Someone was posting on twitter today a YouTuve commentary on a Ted talk where someone was determined to press her own interpretation onto everything the speaker said and it was like watching the person on Ted talk going 'Green green green green' and then the commentator every single time going 'But when she says "green", obviously she means "orange"' over and over in the hope that say it enough and everyone will have to believe you're on to something.

 

[Chilli.s]

Another 3 word buzz phrase that means fuck all

 

[lazythursday]

Another 3 word buzz phrase that means fuck all

Well there's reams of academic literature and real world examples of cities and neighbourhoods on multiple continents attempting to devise policies to make the concept a reality... So while it's not how it's been misrepresented it's definitely not 'fuck all' either.

 

[emanymton]

Well there's reams of academic literature and real world examples of cities and neighbourhoods on multiple continents attempting to devise policies to make the concept a reality... So while it's not how it's been misrepresented it's definitely not 'fuck all' either.

In the UK at least it will amount to fuck all I'm sure.

 

[belboid]

I think most UK cities already are 15 or 20 minute cities, according to the given criteria. Sure I saw somewhere that they already cover over 80% of urban areas.

 

[Chilli.s]

Well there's reams of academic literature and real world examples of cities and neighbourhoods on multiple continents attempting to devise policies to make the concept a reality... So while it's not how it's been misrepresented it's definitely not 'fuck all' either.

Well... Unless all the buses double their numbers and start to run on time. Unless employers only recruit within walking distance. Unless present commuters change their jobs. Unless schools spring up like daffodils

Looks great in an academic paper but poorly thought out in the real world

 

[Crispy]

It's the sort of thing that should drive planning policy. Does development x move towards or away from a 15MC urban enivronment?
There are still thousands upon thousands of new homes being built that are designed for car reliance. Roads being built with no bike lanes. Public transport (where it exists!) only serving radial commuters and not lateral inter-neighbourhood journeys. And so on.

 

[Leafster]

I think most UK cities already are 15 or 20 minute cities, according to the given criteria. Sure I saw somewhere that they already cover over 80% of urban areas.

I think there are some uncertainties over the criteria. Thinking of the reading and viewing I've done, the focus is on being able to walk, wheel or cycle within a 20 minute radius of your home. Obviously cycling would get you the furthest so more urban areas could fall into that definition but how many cities could you walk across in 40 minutes?

I see some definitions include public transport so I'm guess some others may include driving too.

 

[lazythursday]

Well... Unless all the buses double their numbers and start to run on time. Unless employers only recruit within walking distance. Unless present commuters change their jobs. Unless schools spring up like daffodils

Looks great in an academic paper but poorly thought out in the real world

Again missing the point. Not about creating perfection overnight but setting in play policies and principles that move neighbourhoods towards being more liveable without driving everywhere.

 

[Leafster]

It's the sort of thing that should drive planning policy. Does development x move towards or away from a 15MC urban enivronment?
There are still thousands upon thousands of new homes being built that are designed for car reliance. Roads being built with no bike lanes. Public transport (where it exists!) only serving radial commuters and not lateral inter-neighbourhood journeys. And so on.

I'm only familiar with the idea of 20 minute neighbourhoods in the context of Europe and North America. It seems North America is the worst for its planning policies with zoning laws in many places prohibiting mixed development of any kind and it's perpetuating the need for car ownership. Europe generally has a different approach so it should be easier to tweak planning policies more easily. It's still going to be difficult.

Also, I know you didn't necessarily mean it that way but cycleways don't have to run along roads. In fact, in some cases it's probably better that they don't. We need more of them but for routes which would be more useful for cyclists. For instance, we recently had a new cycle lane, introduced with much fanfare by the local authority. Where is it? It's along the by-pass! It's a very car-centric approach to assume cyclists would choose the route cars do.

 

[Yossarian]

To train the AI algorithms how to recognise the faces of masked protesters.

No, really, I've actually heard this.

"OK, to get the AI to look at just the top half of the face it's what? Ctrl+D, no, B ... backslash, now it's saying command not recognised ... ah fuck it, let's just do the pandemic hoax thing."

 

[hitmouse]

Tbf it was very interesting to see how much compliance there was, and how willingly people divided themselves into compliers and resisters, and I'm sure a lot has been learned from this.

In a country like the UK, that tended towards minimal/voluntary/piss-poor lockdowns and similar policies, were/are people doing things that weren't state-mandated compliers or resisters?