“No passaran!”

[moon23]

Yes paradoxicaly the establishment has a vested interest in maintaining its own much milder form of facisism against the BNP

 

[butchersapron]

The establishment doesn't give a shit about the BNP -they're no threat whatsoever - apart from a allowing them to adopt a defend us nice politicians agianst the nasty ones. These are the lines athat are being written in the sand today. This wishy washy hold hands with the people who've fucked things up because they're not fornmally racist approach has to go - and sharpish. NJ more defending those who attack us.

 

[moon23]

I say paradoxicaly because it also creates the conditions in which facisin can emerge which is why we must seek to reform it whilst also on occasions working with it. Remember it was the industrial might of our establishment that defeated nazisism a threat to its own vested interests.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes paradoxicaly the establishment has a vested interest in maintaining its own much milder form of facisism against the BNP

You defend this sytems against the fascists! Defend Oxford, defend the queen, defend partliament, defend democracy, defend capitalism! see how far you're going to get. I think recent votes have been the most eleoquent commentater on this approach.

 

[butchersapron]

I say paradoxicaly because it also creates the conditions in which facisin can emerge which is why we must seek to reform it whilst also on occasions working with it. Remember it was the industrial might of our establishment that defeated nazisism a threat to its own vested interests.

It was that same system that produced fascism. At least you're explicit in being for a pro-status quo approach.

 

[moon23]

Im not pro status-quo just willing to work with the establishment some of who had parents and family killed in the holocaust and care passionatly about stopping the BNP

 

[butchersapron]

Then you're a lib-dem mug.

 

[moon23]

Then you're a lib-dem mug.

I dont belong to any party though I think the Lib-Dems are a progressive force in politics even if they often sacrifice too much to try and get near the levers of power

 

[butchersapron]

And?

 

[moon23]

Then you're a lib-dem mug.

Are you so intent on marginalising yourself that you are willing to offend all Liberal Democrats ? Come on these are all people some of which may have some good ideas about fighting facisism.

 

[butchersapron]

Along what lines?

 

[moon23]

Along what lines?

Explain im not sure what you are asking now

 

[butchersapron]

I'm asking you to explain what good ideas lib-dems might have about fighting fascsim today that aren't pro-status quo.

 

[moon23]

I'm asking you to explain what good ideas lib-dems might have about fighting fascsim today that aren't pro-status quo.

I said they may have good ideas, point is they should not be written off. Currently they are supporting UAF status quo apporach but give them time to think about it. I know a local group is going to go door to door in attempt to understand why people are voting BNP and to counter it. Not saying thats great but neither is throwing eggs

 

[moon23]

I have lib dems on my FB status saying how we need a new strategy other than protests so im hopeful they are thinking about these same issues we are discussing on urban

 

[Blagsta]

Actually there is common ground to be found amongst all humans if you try and look hard enougth, even if that common ground is simply fear.

It's possible I belive even to work together with capitalists, and especially on pan global issues such as climate change and opposing fascism.

On the political compass there are many libertarian capitalists who strongly oppose fascism, they just have a different way of trying to fight it.

liberal

 

[moon23]

Sectarian I am liberal yes.

 

[Blagsta]

Sectarian I am liberal yes.

Not an anarchist then.

 

[moon23]

Not an anarchist then.

An anarcho-liberal who thinks there is a need for grass roots democratic organisations to oppose state and corporate monopolies. Hence why Im an active trade unionist as I think free markets are a good thing so long as they are actively partially opposed to mitigate against thier worse aspects in a balanced conflict of interest. This thread is getting a bit moon focused

 

[butchersapron]

Anarcho-moron.

 

[Blagsta]

An anarcho-liberal who thinks there is a need for grass roots democratic organisations to oppose state and corporate monopolies. Hence why Im an active trade unionist as I think free markets are a good thing so long as they are actively partially opposed to mitigate against thier worse aspects in a balanced conflict of interest. This thread is getting a bit moon focused

not an anarchist then. A liberal.

 

[moon23]

The point is we cant be dogmatic in fighting facisism we need a new approach and we should not exclude people who might be of use. Im advocating unitity thats all

 

[butchersapron]

Well you can fuck off.

 

[Pickman's model]

An anarcho-liberal who thinks there is a need for grass roots democratic organisations to oppose state and corporate monopolies. Hence why Im an active trade unionist as I think free markets are a good thing so long as they are actively partially opposed to mitigate against thier worse aspects in a balanced conflict of interest. This thread is getting a bit moon focused

freemarkets that are actively partially opposed to mitigate against their worse aspects? are you familiar with the term 'oxymoron'?

 

[Pickman's model]

The point is we cant be dogmatic in fighting facisism we need a new approach and we should not exclude people who might be of use. Im advocating unitity thats all

unity on whose platform? eh? fuck your 'unitity'!

 

[Pickman's model]

Im not pro status-quo just willing to work with the establishment some of who had parents and family killed in the holocaust and care passionatly about stopping the BNP

people who had parents and (other) family killed in the holocaust do not necessarily have top politics, or politics capable of doing more than sounding off against the bnp. their membership of the establishment gives them a rather vested interest in the status quo ante, and i for one have little interest working with people who simply want their interests shored up and have no concern for the creation of a better world.

 

[moon23]

not an anarchist then. A liberal.

If you say so, its a semantic point unless there is an official definition of anarchism which would seem paradoxical to me. I feel like you are trying to pigeon hole my politics when we probably agree on a lot and could be working in a more constructive discourse.

 

[Pickman's model]

If you say so, its a semantic point unless there is an official definition of anarchism which would seem paradoxical to me. I feel like you are trying to pigeon hole my politics when we probably agree on a lot and could be working in a more constructive discourse.

you don't need an 'official' definition of anarchism to know it is a different creature from liberalism.

 

[butchersapron]

If you say so, its a semantic point unless there is an official definition of anarchism which would seem paradoxical to me. I feel like you are trying to pigeon hole my politics when we probably agree on a lot and could be working in a more constructive discourse.

There's comperting defintions - none of which support your version. Wtf is it with lib-dems on here thinking that they're anarchists? That's three now isn't it?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Defend this sytenms against the fascists! Defend Oxford, defend the queen, defend partliament, defend democracy, defend capitalism!

If it's all the same with you, I'd rather not.

Especially not Oxford.