“No passaran!”

[Donna Ferentes]

As for it being helpful, well at times like this it's important to show the strength of opposition there is in this country to racist political parties.

I imagine the actual effect will be to show you haven't got much strength behind you at all.

Really, thinking things through is not an impediment to fighting fascism.

 

[untethered]

Rather than taking your proposed action which is likely to lead to accusations of anti-democratic sentiment, how about this for a better idea? You need to do something dignified and poignant without taking any serious physical or political risks. You also need to be able to get near to the Parliament without arousing too much suspicion as it's likely that police will be watching for groups of obvious protesters.

So I think this particular action will call for suits and a generally smart appearance. When you get close to the Parliament door, form an orderly line. Then don black armbands to symbolise the death of democracy that the BNP represent. As Messrs. Griffin and Brons arrive, stand in silence and give them ironic roman salutes as they pass by. Sometimes it's better to understate things rather than over-egg the pudding.

Incidentally, do you support the EU, partyzan?

 

[partyzan]

No. I do however think that they generally selected better-thought-out options than the one you're proposing.

So you're saying they didn't get involved in street politics?...sorry but if you read up on your history you're definitely onto a losing wicket here my friend.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

So you're saying they didn't get involved in street politics?...sorry but if you read up on your history you're definitely onto a losing wicket here my friend.

No, I'm saying what I'm saying and not something completely different. Unless you think that all street politics are the same regardless of who's doing it and what they're proposing to achieve.

 

[partyzan]

Rather than taking your proposed action which is likely to lead to accusations of anti-democratic sentiment, how about this for a better idea? You need to do something dignified and poignant without taking any serious physical or political risks. You also need to be able to get near to the Parliament without arousing too much suspicion as it's likely that police will be watching for groups of obvious protesters.

So I think this particular action will call for suits and a generally smart appearance. When you get close to the Parliament door, form an orderly line. Then don black armbands to symbolise the death of democracy that the BNP represent. As Messrs. Griffin and Brons arrive, stand in silence and give them ironic roman salutes as they pass by. Sometimes it's better to understate things rather than over-egg the pudding.

Incidentally, do you support the EU, partyzan?

Yes...a poignant symbolic gesture, I agree. But how much media attention would that get, if at all! Several thousand people in a militant protest, on the other hand, would make far more of an impact.

In answer to your question, I agree with the sentiments and politics of internationalism.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Several thousand people in a militant protest, on the other hand, would make far more of an impact.

Do you have several thousand people ready to accompany you? And if you did, what kind of impact do you think it would have?

 

[untethered]

Yes...a poignant symbolic gesture, I agree. But how much media attention would that get, if at all!

More than you might expect.

In answer to your question, I agree with the sentiments and politics of internationalism.

That doesn't answer my question at all, does it?

 

[partyzan]

I imagine the actual effect will be to show you haven't got much strength behind you at all.

Really, thinking things through is not an impediment to fighting fascism.

Well this would depend on how many people get involved and the nature and mood of the proposed action.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Well this would depend on how many people get involved and the nature and mood of the proposed action.

Well, I would strongly advise against carrying out this particular action without sufficient support, because you'll look like idiots: or with sufficient support, because you'll look worse.

 

[partyzan]

More than you might expect.

It wouldn't get the same amount of media attention, but I don't disagree with that kind of protest in the slightest.

That doesn't answer my question at all, does it?

I didn't think it would....but will you let me plead the fifth on this one?

 

[partyzan]

Well, I would strongly advise against carrying out this particular action without sufficient support, because you'll look like idiots: or with sufficient support, because you'll look worse.

Sorry DF, but your post was a little confusing towards the end...but you're right, without sufficient support, it would be futile...as for labelling anyone who attending as 'idiots' then I'd consider that disrespectful. After all they would be there to oppose the far-right, and they will always get my support.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

After all they would be there to oppose the far-right, and they will always get my support.

But not necessarily anybody else's.

It is, I think, a particularly good time for people to keep their heads.

 

[partyzan]

But not necessarily anybody else's.

It is, I think, a particularly good time for people to keep their heads.

But sometimes the most progressive attitudes in society are held by the minority, and 'keeping our heads' can allow that which is 'bad' to go unchallenged.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Of course. And of course anything can be described as counterproductive and you never know for sure what the effect of anything will be. But this particular action doesn't strike me as the wisest.

 

[partyzan]

Of course. And of course anything can be described as counterproductive and you never know for sure what the effect of anything will be. But this particular action doesn't strike me as the wisest.

Okay, but you gotta keep the pressure on, surely?

 

[tim]

The 65th anniversary of D Day was a great occasion for patriots to commemorate British soldiers who gave their lives to begin the defeat of Fascism in 1944. So why did you so called nationalistic patriots vote for the Hitler lovers in the BNP?

.................................................................................

And in the BNP’s own words…

“What we urgently need, and must have to survive, is very much less democracy, a very much smaller, more carefully selected and more intelligent electorate … Granting a vote to each and every one of the natives of Britain was madness … lunacy could hardly go further!” (Internal BNP document)

.........................................................................................


Block the BNP will be preventing Nick Griffin and Andrew Brons from taking their seats as MEPs If the people of Britain cannot be relied upon to prevent the BNP Facism in their communities then we will.

You seem to share the BNP's attitude towards normal people. You come across as unpleasantly authoritarian, and like them a bit of a throwback to the 1930's

 

[partyzan]

You seem to share the BNP's attitude towards normal people. You come across as unpleasantly authoritarian, and like them a bit of a throwback to the 1930's

So to oppose anything that the majority are in favour of, no matter how vile and reprehensible, would, according to your post, be authoritarian?

 

[tim]

So to oppose anything that the majority are in favour of, no matter how vile and reprehensible, would, according to your post, be authoritarian?

THe BNP ,of course, did not get the suppport of the "majority"; they got the support of about 10% of the vote in two regions and less in the rest of the country, in a European election. We are therefore not on the verge of a Fascist takeover, this is not Spain, Germany or Italy in the 1930's.

Your plans are to (if you are successful) to use force to stop two people (albeit Nazis) who were elected democratically from taking their seats in the European parliament, trying to undermine, an udoubtedly flawed, democratic process. They, the BNP,are quite willing to use similar tactics when they want, but what do you intend to achieve by aping them. Are your arguments so feeble that you don't feel capable of trouncing the BNP in open debate. I have no love of fascists and NeoNazis, but no liking either of those who, spouting leftist platitudes use force to impose their opinions on others.

Your romantic-nostalgic posturing will be in itself futile, they'll get into that building whatever you do. It will be propfoundly undemocratic and will be used them in their own propoganda offensive against their opponents.

 

[DownwardDog]

Not to mention the police over there of course will let antifa stop MEPs getting in, you think the British police are brutal.

I would seriously think twice about taking the piss out of Brussels cops I saw them in action yesterday evening. They had just arrested two <insert ethnicity according to prejudicial taste> shoplifters in the supermarket. As they got to the cop van one of them gave the older cop some lip. He grabbed hold of their hair and smashed their heads together with a sound like a well struck plant in snooker. The younger shoplifter (maybe 16?) then threw up over his mate and they got slung in the van.

 

[partyzan]

THe BNP ,of course, did not get the suppport of the "majority"; they got the support of about 10% of the vote in two regions and less in the rest of the country, in a European election. We are therefore not on the verge of a Fascist takeover, this is not Spain, Germany or Italy in the 1930's..

I am aware of this and I don't think that I implied anything else to the contrary, I was merely pointing out the problems of the rationale of your argument.

And of course we live in a different set of circumstances to that of Europe in the 30s, but that doesn't mean we can't achieve some understanding of the issues surrounding the rise of contemporary fascist movements and how they were opposed, by examining similar historical events.

Your plans are to (if you are successful) to use force to stop two people (albeit Nazis) who were elected democratically from taking their seats in the European parliament, trying to undermine, an udoubtedly flawed, democratic process. They, the BNP,are quite willing to use similar tactics when they want, but what do you intend to achieve by aping them. Are your arguments so feeble that you don't feel capable of trouncing the BNP in open debate. I have no love of fascists and NeoNazis, but no liking either of those who, spouting leftist platitudes use force to impose their opinions on others..

They aren't my plans or my arguments - I didn't post the thread! But I do support the mobilisation.

But either way, adopting a liberal stance of only opposing the far-right through debate, fails to take account of the real threat they pose at a local level, in terms of the propensity for racist attacks to increase in areas where they have made electoral gains.

Your romantic-nostalgic posturing will be in itself futile, they'll get into that building whatever you do. It will be propfoundly undemocratic and will be used them in their own propoganda offensive against their opponents.

Once again it's not me!!! And I don't know where you get the romantic-nostalgic posturing from...I wouldn't have thought there's anything at all romantic about risking arrest or injury when participating in this type of protest. As for it being undemocratic, well I think it might be worth considering this:

"It is necessary only for the good man to do nothing for evil to triumph'!

 

[Pickman's model]

You really should indicate where youre quoting other peoples words if you want people to take your posts seriously. I'm sure you've been told this before.

if this is who i think it is that we're talking about, if a sentence makes sense he's taken it from somewhere else.

 

[cesare]

if this is who i think it is that we're talking about, if a sentence makes sense he's taken it from somewhere else.

 

[Pickman's model]

that's my reaction to his posts too.

 

[cesare]

that's my reaction to his posts too.

It is who you think it is.

 

[Pickman's model]

yeh i've seen him posting elsewhere.

 

[cesare]

yeh i've seen him posting elsewhere.

yep

 

[JHE]

Is Picky the same Picky as picked before?

 

[Pickman's model]

the original and best

 

[JHE]

Welcome back, then.

 

[Pickman's model]

cheers!