Your perception of rail travel in the UK?

[Orang Utan]

my only complaint is pricing and the bewildering variety of prices - i've seen up to 12 different prices i can pay!
i read recently of one operator that has a set price for all journeys - if only they could all do this

 

[Stigmata]

The quality of the service is fine, it's just prohibitively expensive.

 

[starfish2000]

I find it funny how you've talked about the physical age of the trains, the infrastructure is essentially from the 1880's and thats the fucking problem that the government , the industry and the whole populace seems in denial of. Look at the recent propoesed eletrification oif the Great Western Line.

The Great Western is flat and straight, wheras the Midland Mainline is curved and has sharp gradients and would have a much better environmental impact with regard to Electrification. On the great Westermn the driver can floor it, wheras on the MML there is a constant pushing of the engiones which uses more fuel.

We need sevewral High Speed lines with Trains that are 18 cars long, not 5 or 10. We have a growing population which again evetyone is in denial of.

prices? Well either its run as a public service or its the current piss take it is. Other countries get it right, we should follow there models simple as.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

my only complaint is pricing and the bewildering variety of prices - i've seen up to 12 different prices i can pay!
i read recently of one operator that has a set price for all journeys - if only they could all do this

Yeah. Completely.

Some of the routes are superb though. Newcastle to London in 3 hours is amazing, and a pretty smooth ride etc. It's just the prices.

That said, I can go from Portsmouth to London for 2 quid return if booked via the Megabus site

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I seriously am impressed by the Megabus train thing. It appears to just be Portsmouth to London though mind you. But 2 quid return, sheesh, that includes some saturdays as well - and it's not like one of these things where you read that they exist and then you spend months searching, it's a doddle to find those fares.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Overall impression: shit.

Considering we're supposed to be one of the most developed countries on the planet, and given that we're a small island with a fairly mild, temperate climate so it's not like having to install or maintain the infrastructure that spans from Beijing to Tibet or Xinjiang (about three days by train, involving the world's highest altitude train service across a glacial plateau in the case of Tibet), or the Trans-Siberia railway, and you don't have those scorching hot during the day to sub-zero temperatures you do in desert regions... considering all that, our rail service has to rank as one of the worst in the world. And when you consider the bloody railway steam engine was invented in this country, it's f'ing lamentable how disgraceful our rail service is nowadays. And to add insult to injury it's too bloody expensive. And crowded. And unreliable.

Pants.

To be fair though, if you compare train travel in China objectively (aside from the soft sleepers which are something else) with here, the trains here are mostly infinitely cleaner, etc. It's just shockingly priced.

 

[emanymton]

I travel to and from work each day by train, about 20 minutes each way. On average the trains are about 5 minutes late which I think is reasonable. About once every 2 week one will be over 10 minutes late and about once every 6 weeks one will be 20+ minutes late which. Overall the reliability is about what I would expect.

The problem is the overcrowding, I no it's peak time but they only put a 2 carriage train on a very busy line so sometimes it's touch and go as to wether you will even be able to get on let alone get a seat, although have managed it every time so far.

 

[deadringer]

price, price and price. if the government are serious about getting people out of cars and onto trains then the price has GOT to be comparable. are the operators so thick they cant see that if they were to drop the prices chances are alot more people would be using the trains? or is it not that simple?

 

[Bakunin]

From your post it appears that your general perception of rail travel is that it will be pretty bad, and yet you answer in the poll that what I describe in my OP is "much worse than you would expect". I don't really get it because what I describe isn't exactly a glowing account but to me it's not a description of an absolutely atrocious experience. Is it that you haven't understood the question, or are your expectations unrealistically high?

I expect trains to be pretty crap, yes, but even then I don't expect them to be as unbelievably crap as they usually are. I've had some absolute nightmare journeys on British trains, but in the 20 or so journeys I've had on French ones they've been infinitely superior and I've only had one French train that was late, and that was only late by ten minutes.

The British train network is a standing joke throughout Europe these days. You pay far more than you should for the standard of service you actually get, the standard of service is, in general, appalling, and it's usually a lousy experience from start to finish in my experience.

Oh and, train companies, what's with my having to virtually take out a second mortgage for cup of coffee (that usually tastes like rat piss) and a bacon bap (that's usually so soggy from having been undercooked in a microwave that it disintegrates before I've managed to eat it)?

 

[davesgcr]

Interesting comments - price seems an issue , no one seems to complain about the music hall staple of "dirty trains" '....



or curled sandwiches - has the world moved on !

 

[Roadkill]

Interesting comments - price seems an issue , no one seems to complain about the music hall staple of "dirty trains"

They're not usually too bad IME.

CrossCountry services can get a bit manky towards the end of long journeys. That's mainly the fault of inconsiderate passengers not using the litter bins, but equally, IMO they could be more proactive about collecting litter on the move. Inevitably there's going to be a fair bit, given how long the routes are.

Some local services can seem a bit grubby, but that's probably more because a lot of the trains are a bit old than anything else. Pacers never seem to look anything but shabby, even if they've just been overhauled!

Do you think it'd be fair to say that cleanliness is one thing that's changed for the better since BR days? Grubby trains were a perpetual complaint then, although I can't say I remember them being all that bad.

 

[radiohead]

prices made of fail. else fine

 

[teuchter]

I expect trains to be pretty crap, yes, but even then I don't expect them to be as unbelievably crap as they usually are.

But you have said that what I describe in my OP is much worse than what you generally expect. And that what you generally expect is "crap".

Therefore, if even "crap" is much better than what I describe it would appear that what you would class as "not crap" would have to be several magnitudes better than what I described.

Which seems a little unrealistic - as what I described (I would say) isn't really all that bad.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Those overhead shelves are RUBBISHLY small.


When I was in Germany and that the seats in front had a footrest you could pull out. I'd like to see that here for us poor, unfortunate short arses.

on one train recently (think twas virgin) they had deliberately designed the overhead racks to prevent suitcase storage for "health and safety" reasons, as people were apparently putting bags in that would subsequently fall out and brain the unlucky person underneath

 

[teuchter]

Rail travel in the UK would be excellent value if it was a third the price. I think it is massively overpriced. £200+ to go from Exeter to London return? £35 one way from Exeter to Castle Cary?

It's interesting to see that the majority of complaints are about price, and I certainly agree there are some issues with pricing (and it needs to be competitive with the cost of car travel), but whenever I see a post like this I can't help but to moderate it with some facts:

Exeter to London return isn't £200+.

The most expensive standard class return you can get is £199. Which is a lot. However, this is for peak business travel only (arriving in London before about 10am as far as I can see). Otherwise, the walk-up return fare is either £78 or £65, which leaves plenty of options for those not travelling on business.

Again, Castle Cary to Exeter: £35 single?

Not as far as I can see. NRE tells me that there are some indirect connections (which take 2hrs+ compared to the direct trains which take just under an hour) and the fares for these are between £30 and £35.

However, for the direct trains, the maximum you will pay for a single is £24 and £24.70 for a return. Off-peak: £20.50 return.

 

[Orang Utan]

but you're discounting first class. why do we even have this? it's divisive and, well, there's no two ways about it, it's fucking wrong. get rid of first class and standardising all rail travel is a good step in the right direction.

 

[ethel]

but you're discounting first class. why do we even have this? it's divisive and, well, there's no two ways about it, it's fucking wrong. get rid of first class and standardising all rail travel is a good step in the right direction.

it subsidises the cheaper fare though. also i like using it for work purposes

 

[Orang Utan]

it subsidises the cheaper fare though. also i like using it for work purposes

but if the fare was just one set price....

 

[teuchter]

it subsidises the cheaper fare though. also i like using it for work purposes

Yup. It earns a lot of revenue from people that can afford it, and it also offers more space which is important for people who want to get on with work on the train, and who would probably fly if they couldn't rely on this.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I had to commute in on an overland for a few months last year, it was hell, they treat cattle better. It also was not very punctual. Total rip off for the journey you're doing.

 

[ethel]

my local overland service is fine if you know which trains to avoid. i travel in a bit later and get a seat. quite why employers don't allow people to start at differing times i'll never know.

 

[Orang Utan]

Yup. It earns a lot of revenue from people that can afford it, and it also offers more space which is important for people who want to get on with work on the train, and who would probably fly if they couldn't rely on this.

but don't you think there's something massively wrong with a very crowded train with a very limited amount of seats available for people to sit on?

 

[teuchter]

but don't you think there's something massively wrong with a very crowded train with a very limited amount of seats available for people to sit on?

It's a difficult question, because you have to look at the revenue the first class brings in and balance the benefits this can pay for against the small proportion of the train it takes up (and it usually is quite a small proportion on the commuter routes where overcrowding is a big issue).

In simplistic terms, it may be that the first class fares pay for an extra carriage, half of which is standard class.

I'd imagine that the equation differs from route to route.


(here is a Southern commuter train - the little bit on each end with the yellow above the windows is first class. I'd guess that in each of those bits there are 12 first class seats where 15 standard seats would fit. So maybe 6 seats less over the whole unit, whose total capacity is probably about 250 seats.

)

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

i travel first class to cornwall when i go there now tbh. it's cheaper than walk-up fares, i go there regularly to see my kids and it means i get there and back with my brain in one piece. it's a damned good way to travel currently imo on fgw to cornwall. and it's usually more or less full now ( so it isn't necessarily wasted space as suggested above) that they do appear to have that aspect of the ticketing system sorted out.

*i'm going to hell now aren't i? *

 

[Orang Utan]

It's a difficult question, because you have to look at the revenue the first class brings in and balance the benefits this can pay for against the small proportion of the train it takes up (and it usually is quite a small proportion on the commuter routes where overcrowding is a big issue).

In simplistic terms, it may be that the first class fares pay for an extra carriage, half of which is standard class.

I'd imagine that the equation differs from route to route.


(here is a Southern commuter train - the little bit on each end with the yellow above the windows is first class. Not that much really.

)

i can only tell you what i have experienced personally.
GNER ( now National Express) have a LOT of 1st class seats available and, as a passenger on Connex SouthEast "and whoever are available now", you are made aware of the two tiers of rail travel immediately.

 

[_angel_]

Once you get out of Yorkshire/ pennines the prices go up a LOT if you don't book 6 months in advance and only travel at 3am in the morning, or whatever.

Had lots of good rail journeys, but won't be taking children on a long distance one again and won't be booking short notice either - too pricy.

 

[ethel]

you can only book up to 10 weeks in advance.

also family railcard gives hefty discounts....

 

[_angel_]

It's not going to happen after the seven hours of hell on a virgin train. Not even if they paid us!!

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Interesting comments - price seems an issue , no one seems to complain about the music hall staple of "dirty trains" '....

or curled sandwiches - has the world moved on !

To be honest having seen trains in other countries I don't think ours are particularly dirty. They're just bloody expensive.

The people who run megabus - how do they provide these fares?

You could commute from Portsmouth to waterloo by megatrain and it would cost less than the cash tube fare from parts of London, as the fares all include like 6am ones and stuff. It's fucking bizarre.

 

[dessiato]

my only complaint is pricing and the bewildering variety of prices - i've seen up to 12 different prices i can pay!
i read recently of one operator that has a set price for all journeys - if only they could all do this

I wonder if that is Grand Central, from memory their pricing structure is very straightforward. London to York was about £35 one way as opposed to others charging up to £85. Their biggest problem was that they only go from London to Sunderland, and back of course.