Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
especially people who vote for the BNP,Natural Law party, WESPECK, UKIP...
Yes or No -AV referendum May 2011
- Thread starter articul8
- Start date
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Well it is clear why the Libems want AV, because they think they will be a lot of people's second preferences.
Indeed ... Why should they get a second bite of the cherry?
past caring
The Cathars were right
That's because they didn't vote the right way the first time.
"When will these fuckers vote the way we want them to?"
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
yes,so it channels votes to the "big3"
past caring
The Cathars were right
Really?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
of course.
past caring
The Cathars were right
Care to elaborate?
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Yep.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
The most relevant thing about it, though, is whether Labour or the Tories are better placed to reach 50% of the vote in more seats. If the Tories didn't think they would lose out why are they so opposed?
As the eg. of the Greens in Ireland shows going from being transfer friendly (LDs pre coalition) can easily tip to going transfer repellent. LDs better watch out - AV could wipe them out in Scotland and Wales as Labour/Nats/ and others could all share preferences are boot them out altogether.
As the eg. of the Greens in Ireland shows going from being transfer friendly (LDs pre coalition) can easily tip to going transfer repellent. LDs better watch out - AV could wipe them out in Scotland and Wales as Labour/Nats/ and others could all share preferences are boot them out altogether.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
Sure.people who vote for a "Non-Big3" party generally have contempt for mainstream parties.They also, most often, have a clear idea which "mainstream" party they hate the most,and the least.
so:I'll vote SP,but my second pref.goes to Labour to keep the Tories out.A UKIPer will give 2nd Pref to the tories to keep Labour out,likewise many BNP voters,and so on.
So,unless their first choice has a HUGE increase in 1st prefs,they get knocked out early - and "big 3" candidates clean up
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Yeah, but Ireland has PR/STV, not AV bollocks.
Unless you're trying to tell us that AV is PR by another name. In which case, you'd be lying.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Not only does it channel votes to the centre, but it will be used as a bloc against a pro-working class party/alliance if it ever becomes a threat, just as the Aussies have used it to form a bloc against the far right. Which is the point of it.
Every vote will count so long as you vote capitalist.
All these liberal cunts cheerleading AV as a democratic reform which will further the cause of a proportional voting system, as if we are on a constant line of progression to a lovely wooly utopian future must have been asleep for the past few decades.
And as for the weapons who think they can reduce the debate to constitutional 'reforms' and that the contemporary political situation is irrelevant can fuck right off. The liberals want this - need this - so that they can say they've got something from the coalition. And so that a party with collapsing support can continue to play a role in government. Go democracy.
Who is asking for it and why are they asking for it. It is what it always comes down to.
And A8 is a two-bit hack for hire. Compass cunt.
Every vote will count so long as you vote capitalist.
All these liberal cunts cheerleading AV as a democratic reform which will further the cause of a proportional voting system, as if we are on a constant line of progression to a lovely wooly utopian future must have been asleep for the past few decades.
And as for the weapons who think they can reduce the debate to constitutional 'reforms' and that the contemporary political situation is irrelevant can fuck right off. The liberals want this - need this - so that they can say they've got something from the coalition. And so that a party with collapsing support can continue to play a role in government. Go democracy.
Who is asking for it and why are they asking for it. It is what it always comes down to.
And A8 is a two-bit hack for hire. Compass cunt.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
In theory the Lib Dems could get a seat based on 2nd prefs despite nobody voting for them a first pref.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
So what? You say this as if it were an affront to democracy.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Well said.
past caring
The Cathars were right
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
oh,you git 
- tbf,I joined the thread some time after you
- tbf,I joined the thread some time after you
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
It is:it is negative democracy
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
What's the alternative? I don't disagree with you that AV is shit. But I fail to see how the current system is better.
The only way a vote for a preferred candidate can carry proper weight is in a multi-MP constituency. I don't see why people are so opposed to that idea. (not say you are) It gives you a choice of MPs to go to with your grievances.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What's this preferred candidate bollocks?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's the crap system of democracy that we have. In most elections, none of the candidates is standing on a platform that is anywhere near what I think.
In such a situation, I'm every bit as interested in who I hate most as in who I like most.
In such a situation, I'm every bit as interested in who I hate most as in who I like most.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
It isn't.But it isn't worse enough to vote 'yes'
Agreed-but that's not on offer
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I thought that you were an anarchist?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
What has being an anarchist got to do with anything?
We're talking about what is here and now and what is better or worse. I'm not talking high principles, I'm talking practical reality, as you yourself have stressed many times.
Anyway, it depends what day it is. Sometimes I call myself an anarchist. Sometimes a communist. Sometimes a socialist. Depends who I'm talking to and what particular thing I'm trying to stress.
I don't believe I've ever called myself anything on here. I might have done, but I don't remember doing it.
We're talking about what is here and now and what is better or worse. I'm not talking high principles, I'm talking practical reality, as you yourself have stressed many times.
Anyway, it depends what day it is. Sometimes I call myself an anarchist. Sometimes a communist. Sometimes a socialist. Depends who I'm talking to and what particular thing I'm trying to stress.
I don't believe I've ever called myself anything on here. I might have done, but I don't remember doing it.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You did. If you don't then fine - all this pathetic defensive flannel can be burnt.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Eh?
<baffled>
Yep. I'm pretty consistent in what I say, but as to where I would like to go from here, that can be described in different ways. It doesn't matter what you call it.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
What does that matter, though? I think you've called yourself a communist on here. So what? It's your ideas that matter.
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