World War One and the Socialist Parties

[dash_two]

A friend tells me that in the early days of the First World War, none of the European socialist parties in combatant countries opposed getting involved in it. Instead, he claims, they all duly fell into line with the prevailing patriotic fervour.

Is it really true that all the socialist parties did so, or is it the case that there were some exceptions? I haven't yet found an all-in-one answer elsewhere on the net.

 

[Flavour]

bolsheviks

 

[Geri]

The bulgarians opposed it and the majority of the Italians.

 

[dash_two]

So socialist opposition to the war was generally weak in Europe at the outset, but not non-existent - thanks.

 

[Kripcat]

bolsheviks

Seconded, can't really call bolshevik opposition weak....

 

[selamlar]

I think it is true that all of the socialist parties in combatant countries (except for the Bolsheviks) fell in with the whole patriotic lot, but there were a number of notable individual exceptions.

The failure to take on the question of imperialist war was effectivly what destroyed the Second International

 

[butchersapron]

I think it is true that all of the socialist parties in combatant countries (except for the Bolsheviks) fell in with the whole patriotic lot, but there were a number of notable individual exceptions.

The failure to take on the question of imperialist war was effectivly what destroyed the Second International

The PSI opposed the war, but not on a clear anti-imperialist basis, they pretty much supported non-intervention alone, which annoyed a large-ish group of members who wised to join in the battle and make the most of their international competitors difficulties - along with some pro-intervention syndicalists these people formed the core of the later facist movement. The bolshevik case was more complicated as they were pretty much split three ways, with the eventual victorious approach (Lenin's basically) being a very small minority postion that was easilt swamped by the 'peace now' and 'join the war to stop the prussiian beast making revolution impossible for future generations' postions.

 

[Gavin Bl]

It was all particularly galling as they had all talked about how they would not get involved in an imperialist war - but it was all part and parcel of something I think someone like Eduard Bernstein said about revolutionary politics (paraphrasing)

'one talks about such things, but one does not actually do them'

so I think it was part and parcel of a drift towards reformist politics in the Second International that had been going along for a couple of decades at least, I would think, prior to 1914.

Even so, it was a shock to those who remained firm revolutionaries - I think Lenin actually refused to believe that Karl Kautsky (then a very influential marxist, now largely forgotten) had voted for war.

 

[butchersapron]

That was someone actually telling Bernstein in the early 1900s during the revisionism debate that he really shouldn't be so open about the non-revolutionary nature of the second international...basically saying, look we all know what we are, we don't need to tell anyone, now shut up or you'll ruin it for the rest of us....

 

[Dopermine]

Rosa Luxemburg

So how does Rosa Luxemburg fit into all this?

 

[Groucho]

So how does Rosa Luxemburg fit into all this?

She was, like Lenin a revolutionary defeatist. She split from the SDP over the war and then, along with theh Spartists, from the USPD over the issue of revolution. The USPD opposed the war but on a wobbly pacifist basis.

Luxemburg had massive influence on a Polish socialist party - under her influence they took a revolutionary defeatist line.

She was imprisoned due to her oposition to the war and was christened Bloody Rosa by the pro-war hypocrites.

 

[Dopermine]

She was, like Lenin a revolutionary defeatist. She split from the SDP over the war and then, along with theh Spartists, from the USPD over the issue of revolution. The USPD opposed the war but on a wobbly pacifist basis.

Luxemburg had massive influence on a Polish socialist party - under her influence they took a revolutionary defeatist line.

She was imprisoned due to her oposition to the war and was christened Bloody Rosa by the pro-war hypocrites.

Didn't the pacifists organise thousands of strikes in Germany which is part of the reason it surrendered?

 

[Dopermine]

Oh, and what's "revolutionary defeastist like Lenin" mean?

 

[Groucho]

Didn't the pacifists organise thousands of strikes in Germany which is part of the reason it surrendered?

There was an anti-war uprising which followed the dispersal of mutinous sailors. It wasn't exactly organised by a particular party, it was as spontaneous as far as these things can be. Obviously socialists of various pursuasions were involved as well as very many soldiers and sailors who had supported the war at the outset and realised their mistake.

Pacifist opposition to the war does not necessarily amount to anti-war activity, especially of the kind that brings about defeat for your own country - that is what is meant by revolutionary defeatism. It can be said that in Germany by 1918 the majority had become revolutionary defeatist.

 

[Dopermine]

There was an anti-war uprising which followed the dispersal of mutinous sailors. It wasn't exactly organised by a particular party, it was as spontaneous as far as these things can be. Obviously socialists of various pursuasions were involved as well as very many soldiers and sailors who had supported the war at the outset and realised their mistake.

Pacifist opposition to the war does not necessarily amount to anti-war activity, especially of the kind that brings about defeat for your own country - that is what is meant by revolutionary defeatism. It can be said that in Germany by 1918 the majority had become revolutionary defeatist.

It seems pacifist opposition may have contributed to the downfall of Germany. In which case, socialism had a decisive impact on the war.

 

[Groucho]

It seems pacifist opposition may have contributed to the downfall of Germany. In which case, socialism had a decisive impact on the war.

Yes, but...

The main socialist organisation had opposed the war up until it was about to start. The leadership about faced and supported it! The SPD.

The split - the USPD opposed the war but their Parliamentarians abstained on the vital issue. Their opposition was pacifist in that they wouldn't do anything to support the war but they were 'evenly opposed to both sides' and didn't want to endorse action that could lead to a victory for the other side.

Revolutionary defeatism as advocated by the Bolsheviks involved active opposition, advocating strikes and sabotage to end the war even if the result was defeat for your 'own' country - the enemy is at home. That was Luxemburg's response. I have no doubt that socialists played key roles in organising the opposition, but with exception of Luxemburg/Leibnicht's group who became the Sparticists and then the German CP (KPD) the leadership were loath to take a clear position of active opposition and some were out and out traitors.

The workers were in advance of 'their' party/parties.

 

[butchersapron]

Revolutionary defeatism as advocated by the Bolsheviks involved active opposition, advocating strikes and sabotage to end the war even if the result was defeat for your 'own' country - the enemy is at home.

As advocated by some bolsheviks. By no means the party as a whole.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

One of the great things in history that have caught my attention is the fact that Karl Liebknecht, a German SDP member of the Reichstag, voted against the First World War.

What impresses me about this is that he was the only one.

It indicates tremendous personal bravery to make a stand in this situation.

Don't forget, that the SDP was Europe's first avowedly revolutionary Marxist party - and when the test came in the First World War they completely failed.

 

[butchersapron]

I think he only did it on the second vote though, abstained on the first, he was quickly joined by Otto Ruhle as well.

 

[Groucho]

...
What impresses me about this is that he was the only one.
....

Yes, and when he was released from prison by mass strikes he spoke to a massed crowd and declared the redundancy of the old regime and the advent of the Socialist Republic! However, the right wing simply instated the right-wing of the SPD (Ebert) into Government and set about violently smashing workers organisation area by area with the backing of the so-called 'Socialist' Government. Liebknecht was murdered in 1919 along with Luxemburg. It is likely that his resolve in voting against the war was hardened by Luxemburg, and I think Butcher's is right re the first vote, he opposed the war but felt he couln't break the 'party line' until other activists gave him further encouragement.

 

[barney_pig]

the sebian socialists also opposed the war from the beginning