Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

World War II

A post on twitter re Normandy historians bunfight has got me reading Robin Neilands "The Battle for Normandy".

Good insight into military planning here:

Monty’s military assistant, was helping his chief prepare for the first presentation of plans on April 7, 1944, eight weeks before D-Day, he asked Montgomery where the phase lines should be drawn between D-Day and D plus 90?

Monty replied, ‘Well, it doesn’t matter, Kit – draw them where you like’.

‘Shall I draw them equally, Sir?’, asked Dawnay.

‘Yes, that’ll do’, replied Montgomery.

Ooh. Where’s the bunfight? Does it involve Jonathan ware? I bet it does. :D
 
I'm guessing it's a continuation of the comment he made on SeaSpitfires new book on Sword beach. I have that pre ordered.

Will have a look later.
 
Spent the afternoon watching "Occupied City" at the DocHouse..

Occupied City — Modern Films

It's a fascinating account of Amsterdam during the war, the Jewish deportations, and the resistance, with footage taken from COVID-19 onwards.

On the list. I watched Zone of Interest last night. Fucking hell.

The phrase “the banality of evil” has been going round my head ever since.

It’s a heavy heavy film.

Watch it on headphones if you can. Or very loud.
 
On the list. I watched Zone of Interest last night. Fucking hell.

The phrase “the banality of evil” has been going round my head ever since.

It’s a heavy heavy film.

Watch it on headphones if you can. Or very loud.
I’ve seen it at the cinema twice (second time tonight). It’s heavy as you say to put it mildly, but it’s also seared on my brain.
 
Yes I’ll try and catch it in the big room as well. Whilst googling certain things about it last night found out it was on down the road yesterday!
 
Spent the afternoon watching "Occupied City" at the DocHouse..

Occupied City — Modern Films

It's a fascinating account of Amsterdam during the war, the Jewish deportations, and the resistance, with footage taken from COVID-19 onwards.
This is on down the road to me in Totnes on Tuesday but the cinema there is basically a mix of cafe / cabaret style seating and there’s a bar in front of the screen (think it’s used as a cafe when films not on). So unsure if the right environment for me. Will have a think
 
No aviation expert here, but surely those nose-end accidents must result from take-off/landing mishaps rather than dropping from flight? Otherwise there would have been much more destruction/burial?
 
No aviation expert here, but surely those nose-end accidents must result from take-off/landing mishaps rather than dropping from flight? Otherwise there would have been much more destruction/burial?
it's obviously a landing mishap no matter what it results from
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Chz
Here you go.


The Spitfire Mk IX was an evolved version of the Spitfire, with pylons under the wings for bombs or tanks. It was discovered that the bomb pylons could also be modified to carry beer kegs. According to pictures that can be found, various sizes of kegs were used. Whether the kegs could be jettisoned in case of emergency is unknown. If the Spitfire flew high enough, the cold air at altitude would even refresh the beer, making it ready for consumption upon arrival. A variation of this was a long range fuel tank modified to carry beer instead of fuel. The modification even received the official designation Mod. XXX. Propaganda services were quick to pick up on this, which probably explains the "official" designation.

As a result, Spitfires equipped with Mod XXX or keg-carrying pylons were often sent back to Great-Britain for "maintenance" or "liaison" duties. They would then return to Normandy with full beer kegs fitted under the wings. Typically, the British Revenue of Ministry and Excise stepped in, notifying the brewery that they were in violation of the law by exporting beer without paying the relevant taxes. It seems that Mod. XXX was terminated then, but various squadrons found different ways to refurbish their stocks. Most often, this was done with the unofficial approval of higher echelons. In his book "Dancing in the Skies", Tony Jonsson, the only Icelandic pilot in the RAF, recalled beer runs while he was flying with 65 Squadron. Every week a pilot was sent back to the UK to fill some cleaned-up drop tanks with beer and return to the squadron. Jonsson hated the beer runs as every man on the squadron would be watching you upon arrival. Anyone who made a rough landing and dropped the tanks would be the most hated man on the squadron for an entire week.

Even been immortalised in plastic. :D


1712908596548.png
 
Here you go.


The Spitfire Mk IX was an evolved version of the Spitfire, with pylons under the wings for bombs or tanks. It was discovered that the bomb pylons could also be modified to carry beer kegs. According to pictures that can be found, various sizes of kegs were used. Whether the kegs could be jettisoned in case of emergency is unknown. If the Spitfire flew high enough, the cold air at altitude would even refresh the beer, making it ready for consumption upon arrival. A variation of this was a long range fuel tank modified to carry beer instead of fuel. The modification even received the official designation Mod. XXX. Propaganda services were quick to pick up on this, which probably explains the "official" designation.

As a result, Spitfires equipped with Mod XXX or keg-carrying pylons were often sent back to Great-Britain for "maintenance" or "liaison" duties. They would then return to Normandy with full beer kegs fitted under the wings. Typically, the British Revenue of Ministry and Excise stepped in, notifying the brewery that they were in violation of the law by exporting beer without paying the relevant taxes. It seems that Mod. XXX was terminated then, but various squadrons found different ways to refurbish their stocks. Most often, this was done with the unofficial approval of higher echelons. In his book "Dancing in the Skies", Tony Jonsson, the only Icelandic pilot in the RAF, recalled beer runs while he was flying with 65 Squadron. Every week a pilot was sent back to the UK to fill some cleaned-up drop tanks with beer and return to the squadron. Jonsson hated the beer runs as every man on the squadron would be watching you upon arrival. Anyone who made a rough landing and dropped the tanks would be the most hated man on the squadron for an entire week.

Even been immortalised in plastic. :D


View attachment 419583

i retract my scepticism - what a lovely story. wouldnt happen now of course - WW2 was a gentler, kinder time.
 
i retract my scepticism - what a lovely story. wouldnt happen now of course - WW2 was a gentler, kinder time.

Could leave your front door open.

Well you had to because it had either been blown off by the Luftwaffe or kicked in by the Gestapo*.

But we were happy.

*other terrifying front door experiences were available
 
Given its de facto status as the bankers of the world and its next to non-existent armed forces, I still struggle to comprehend how Switzerland managed through the whole conflict (and at other times in European history) to remain an independent nation which sovereignty was respected by Hitler’s Germany- more so considering the immense amount valuables & gold the Swiss would have been custodians of.

At the end of the day, the Nazis weren’t exactly best known for their regard for international law or recognition of other nations’ fundamental rights and territorial sanctity. And it would have taken them about an afternoon’s work to overrun and take over a country like Switzerland.

It almost feels like the leaders of that country have long mastered the power of Jedi mind tricks and used it to ensure their plucky little nation remains as a sanctuary neutral ground through modern history no matter how powerful or unhinged the powers around them might be.
 
And it would have taken them about an afternoon’s work to overrun and take over a country like Switzerland.
You'd be surprised. I've no doubt what the end would be, but it would be a lot tougher battle than you're assuming there. It's a bear vs. a wolverine sort of thing. The bear will always win, but some things just aren't fucking worth it. So they leave each other alone. Taking Switzerland is a distraction from Hitler's main goals, at best. Money isn't something they needed more of. Maybe if Switzerland had oil history would be different. Besides, most of the senior Nazis banked in Switzerland. Why would they fuck with that?
 
You'd be surprised. I've no doubt what the end would be, but it would be a lot tougher battle than you're assuming there. It's a bear vs. a wolverine sort of thing. The bear will always win, but some things just aren't fucking worth it. So they leave each other alone. Taking Switzerland is a distraction from Hitler's main goals, at best. Money isn't something they needed more of. Maybe if Switzerland had oil history would be different. Besides, most of the senior Nazis banked in Switzerland. Why would they fuck with that?
Well they shouldn’t, but greedy power-mad cunts will do their thing, and surely it must crossed the mind of many a German Army general that why should they be content with the contents of their deposit box at their Swiss bank when they could take over the country and acquire the contens of every other box in that and all other bank vaults in town?
 
It's a bit like Finland. Not the biggest army in the world, but half the population are reservists and they're armed to the fucking teeth. Pair that with the only ways in being mountain passes, and it's a hard slog. You can't bring your numerical superiority to bear in mountain passes, and paratroops dropped in will get killed by the locals who all have a rifle in the cupboard and are trained to use it.
 
At the end of the day, the Nazis weren’t exactly best known for their regard for international law or recognition of other nations’ fundamental rights and territorial sanctity. And it would have taken them about an afternoon’s work to overrun and take over a country like Switzerland.

It almost feels like the leaders of that country have long mastered the power of Jedi mind tricks and used it to ensure their plucky little nation remains as a sanctuary neutral ground through modern history no matter how powerful or unhinged the powers around them might be.
Were the Nazi's particularly bothered about invading France or Britain? No - they wanted living room in the East (other than reoccupation of the Rhineland).
Had Britain and France 'played ball' then no invasion... atleast in the short/mid term. In part of the calculus of invading Poland he'd got assurances from Ribbentrop that Britain/France wouldn't do anything. Perhaps Switzerland also benefitted from not being east of Germany and not being full of Slavs.

[Happy to be corrected..]

(Edited: for confusion around Rhineland/A-L)
 
Last edited:
The comments above on Switzerland made me think of Liechtenstein. Was it invaded?, I wondered. According to Wikipedia, there was a plan to invade both Liechtenstein and Switzerland.

"During World War II, Liechtenstein remained officially neutral, looking to neighbouring Switzerland for assistance and guidance, while family treasures from dynastic lands and possessions in Bohemia, Moravia, and Silesia were taken to Liechtenstein for safekeeping. Operation Tannenbaum, the Nazi plan for conquest of Switzerland, included also Liechtenstein, and the Nazi "Pan German" dream of uniting all German-speakers in the Reich would have also included the population of Liechtenstein. However, the Nazis eventually gave up implementing this plan, and Liechtenstein was spared from enduring a Nazi occupation."
 
Some cracking films here for those that may be interested.

Bump

The Cine Lumiere has a season of WW2 films coming up (including some mentioned on this thread).


Not French but definitely going to try and catch this:
 
Back
Top Bottom