Workers Power have split

[frogwoman]

“On the myspace [website] discussion of the issue, one neophyte supporter of the SEP summed up the explanation he had been given as follows:
“1) the GRPI does not fund the SEP;
“2) the GRPI provides employment for a number of comrades;
“3) no one is getting rich through their involvement with the GRPI;
“4) the GRPI is a successful company and has won awards for being a quality employer.
“If I were a member, I would be wondering what the purpose of the GRPI is, if it neither serves the needs of the SEP, nor makes anyone rich. I’d also be curious about which SEP comrades get jobs there and how they get selected. I suppose it’s nice to win awards, but most people would rather work in places where they have union protection instead of having to rely on management goodwill. (I think it is safe to assume that, since 'unions have essentially completed their degeneration' they do not represent GRPI's workforce.)

the gpri is a successful company and has won awards for being a quality employer

cunts.

 

[Red Storm]

Not long after the whole Bolton EDL demo fiasco that mortally wounded the UAF, discussing what to do next.

I believe that was a very well organised mini-riot

 

[Delroy Booth]

I believe that was a very well organised mini-riot

You could make a sitcom just about that day if you ask me. Listening to the the SWP full-timers on the verge of tears trying rouse the crowd into chanting "let Martin go" as the police kicked the shit out of everyone is one of the most surreal moments of my life.

We must protect the Vanguard, comrades!

 

[belboid]

You could make a sitcom just about that day if you ask me. Listening to the the SWP full-timers on the verge of tears trying rouse the crowd into chanting "let Martin go" as the police kicked the shit out of everyone is one of the most surreal moments of my life.

We must protect the Vanguard, comrades!

funnily enough, that's not how I remember it at all

 

[SpineyNorman]

You could make a sitcom just about that day if you ask me. Listening to the the SWP full-timers on the verge of tears trying rouse the crowd into chanting "let Martin go" as the police kicked the shit out of everyone is one of the most surreal moments of my life.

We must protect the Vanguard, comrades!

I was at that one. What a shambles. I ended up crushed up between a wall and a line of coppers and they tried to arrest me for not moving back - the fact there was a wall behind me didn't seem to bother them.

What I could never work out was why the people with megaphones kept asking people to go to the edges of the cordon to push against the coppers - what was that supposed to achieve? Just seemed like they wanted people to do it so that it made the demo look more "militant".

 

[barney_pig]

the IBT in Britain are the nicest people you are likely to meet, who promote some of the most unpleasant politics you are likely to come across.

 

[frogwoman]

the IBT in Britain are the nicest people you are likely to meet, who promote some of the most unpleasant politics you are likely to come across.

How so? I don't know anything about them really.

 

[Delroy Booth]

I was at that one. What a shambles. I ended up crushed up between a wall and a line of coppers and they tried to arrest me for not moving back - the fact there was a wall behind me didn't seem to bother them.

What I could never work out was why the people with megaphones kept asking people to go to the edges of the cordon to push against the coppers - what was that supposed to achieve? Just seemed like they wanted people to do it so that it made the demo look more "militant".

Yeah I remember that it was fucking insane! I remember the SWP 'ers with the megaphones chanting "Hold the line" and encouraging their members to engage in some pathetic pushing and shoving ritual with the police, meanwhile those who weren't doing that were pretty much allowed to leave the "kettle" whenever they wanted with no police problems at all. I have absolutely no idea what they were thinking. It was the UAF who secretly agreed with the police beforehand to "kettle" themselves and have a little pen to hold their demo in, and now they were there they wanted to try and force their way out or something? It was ridiculous.

We were at the other side of the enclosure facing the EDL taking the piss out of them. It was very funny. Just spent ages ripping them, even the coppers were laughing. They looked like such a bunch of crackheads it's unreal.

I remember being involved in some pushing and shoving with the police, which covered about 3/4 of the UAF side of the divide, with the other 1/4 being un-covered and where people where just milling about normally. I remember there being a line of swappies pushing against the police, and in the rough and tumble they moved towards the war memorial, where there was some old trot having his cheese butty as if he was in the middle of a fucking picnic. As the mass of bodies moved further towards him I shouted "mate you'd better move" and he was very annoyed by this, he wanted to stay sat down and finish his cheese sandwich. He seemed totally oblivious to the fact there was a mini-riot going on yards from where he was sat. Then out the corner of my eye I saw a load of christians holding candles singing "Onward Christian Soldiers" as all hell was breaking loose around them.

The best bit was the Scottish guy who I saw have an argument with the police. It was when the tactical heavy-duy boys had just gone in to arrest Weyman Bennett and Martin Smith, and they were struggling to get out of the crowd that had surounded them. The exhange went something like this

Police: Get back! You don't understand, we're here to protect you from them, they'll murder you, their animals
Scottish guy: Nah mate, you dinnae understand, that will'nae do for me, i've gotta get at 'em!

Maybe you had to be there.

 

[barney_pig]

met them quite a few times, but at the weekly worker summer school all the micro sects tend to congregate and relax a bit, everyone knows each other and have less to prove. you get the chance to make friends across the barricades.
as to their politics, check out the leaflet above^ the reference to the sparts "dive on saving marines" was about the row over the spart headline overthe huge carbomb killing of us marines in lebanon in1983 saying "bring them home", and the IBT adding "in body bags"
the two gangs indulge in a game of vicarious bloodlust in which neither ever get their own hands dirty (at one time the sparts announced an international brigade to fight in support of the soviet army in Afghanistan,) unlike cockers similar initiative that one never even made it to the Cheedle high street bus stop

 

[frogwoman]

fair play, don't know anything about the weekly worker summer school lol.i must be missing out

met them quite a few times, but at the weekly worker summer school all the micro sects tend to congregate and relax a bit, everyone knows each other and have less to prove. you get the chance to make friends across the barricades.
as to their politics, check out the leaflet above^ the reference to the sparts "dive on saving marines" was about the row over the spart headline overthe huge carbomb killing of us marines in lebanon in1983 saying "bring them home", and the IBT adding "in body bags"
​

​

bloody hell they didn't actually write that did they?​

 

[Nigel Irritable]

The IBT, if I recall correctly, put forward the slogan "Colonialists: Live Like Pigs - Die Like Pigs" after the 1983 Beirut barracks bombs, which killed 299 US and French soldiers as well as some civilians.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

fair play, don't know anything about the weekly worker summer school lol.i must be missing out

I went to that many years ago. They bought me a load of pints and advised me to join the Socialist Party as a spy.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Yeah I remember that it was fucking insane! I remember the SWP 'ers with the megaphones chanting "Hold the line" and encouraging their members to engage in some pathetic pushing and shoving ritual with the police, meanwhile those who weren't doing that were pretty much allowed to leave the "kettle" whenever they wanted with no police problems at all. I have absolutely no idea what they were thinking. It was the UAF who secretly agreed with the police beforehand to "kettle" themselves and have a little pen to hold their demo in, and now they were there they wanted to try and force their way out or something? It was ridiculous.

We were at the other side of the enclosure facing the EDL taking the piss out of them. It was very funny. Just spent ages ripping them, even the coppers were laughing. They looked like such a bunch of crackheads it's unreal.

I remember being involved in some pushing and shoving with the police, which covered about 3/4 of the UAF side of the divide, with the other 1/4 being un-covered and where people where just milling about normally. I remember there being a line of swappies pushing against the police, and in the rough and tumble they moved towards the war memorial, where there was some old trot having his cheese butty as if he was in the middle of a fucking picnic. As the mass of bodies moved further towards him I shouted "mate you'd better move" and he was very annoyed by this, he wanted to stay sat down and finish his cheese sandwich. He seemed totally oblivious to the fact there was a mini-riot going on yards from where he was sat. Then out the corner of my eye I saw a load of christians holding candles singing "Onward Christian Soldiers" as all hell was breaking loose around them.

The best bit was the Scottish guy who I saw have an argument with the police. It was when the tactical heavy-duy boys had just gone in to arrest Weyman Bennett and Martin Smith, and they were struggling to get out of the crowd that had surounded them. The exhange went something like this

Police: Get back! You don't understand, we're here to protect you from them, they'll murder you, their animals
Scottish guy: Nah mate, you dinnae understand, that will'nae do for me, i've gotta get at 'em!

Maybe you had to be there.

Yeah, I was at the front too most of the time, it was weird, like it wasn't real - I remember starting a chant about some seriously weird looking fella having six fingers on his hands, and I remember big glass vodka bottles being chucked over and it felt like it was a game where we had to dodge them, I even shouted "heads up" and laughed when one came over. It's like it was that weird it made me behave strangely too.

When I nearly got arrested I'd just been to the portabogs that were just outside the other end of the cordon. I got out fine, but just as I was coming out a mad swarm of what can only be described as the most stereotypical middle class lefties (sandals, palestinian scarves, the lot, and I'm not exaggerating) came flying over, I assume on the orders of one of the megaphone people, and started pushing the coppers over there. I ended up getting trapped in it. And just to make it even more weird and make me want to go for a lie down, when they tried to arrest me the stereotypical lefty types actually managed to pull me away from the coppers. I couldn't decide whether to have a go for getting me in the shit or thank them for getting me out of it!

Worst thing I saw that day though, and it wasn't funny at all, was this really old bloke - must have been in his nineties - who was just standing there minding his own business. The coppers came running past him and I'm sure one of them deliberately pushed the poor old sod over. About a week after I saw an interview he did at the demo on youtube - he was a Canadian WW2 vet who'd volunteered to fight with the British against the Nazis and if I remember correctly he had to con his way onto some haulage vessel to get here to fight, a genuine first class hero, and he'd found out about the demo from the Morning Star, which had appealed for people to come and make a stand against the fascists. He died not long after and for some reason I often think about that bloke when people are talking about the UAF.

 

[frogwoman]

Stalin had trotsky murdered, but yet here they are, the "true form of trotskyism" happily defending the most disgusting regimes that are probably worse than Stalin's himself. says it all about the sparts really.

 

[frogwoman]

I went to that many years ago. They bought me a load of pints and advised me to join the Socialist Party as a spy.

as a spy, wtf? that's hilarious how come

 

[SpineyNorman]

I went to that many years ago. They bought me a load of pints and advised me to join the Socialist Party as a spy.

That explains a lot

 

[Delroy Booth]

Worst thing I saw that day though, and it wasn't funny at all, was this really old bloke - must have been in his nineties - who was just standing there minding his own business. The coppers came running past him and I'm sure one of them deliberately pushed the poor old sod over. About a week after I saw an interview he did at the demo on youtube - he was a Canadian WW2 vet who'd volunteered to fight with the British against the Nazis and if I remember correctly he had to con his way onto some haulage vessel to get here to fight, a genuine first class hero, and he'd found out about the demo from the Morning Star, which had appealed for people to come and make a stand against the fascists. He died not long after and for some reason I often think about that bloke when people are talking about the UAF.

Oh god I remember that, there's footage of it on youtube. Fucking horrible, that guy was a star. He used to go and do Stop the War stalls in Bolton, coz he was a WW2 who had been scarred by the experience. The police knocked him flying, he must've been 80+. Terrible

 

[Nigel Irritable]

as a spy, wtf?

The CPGB/Weekly Worker used to try to recruit people in bigger left groups and keep them there as anonymous reporters for the Weekly Worker. They would also send new people, who wouldn't be recognised in.

At the time I was in London for a few months and was in a SWSS in Dublin. I hadn't decided whether to join the SWP or Socialist Party. I told the CPGB lot this in the pub and they then tried to convince me to (a) become a supporter of the CPGB , (b) still go and join the SP and (c) send gossip to the Weekly Worker. They advised me to join the SP rather than SWP because there'd be "more democratic space" to act the maggot. I didn't take them up on their offer.

It always makes me laugh when I see them do a straight faced disavowal of the very idea that they'd ever send supporters into other left groups to spy on them.

 

[frogwoman]

The CPGB/Weekly Worker used to try to recruit people in bigger left groups and keep them there as anonymous reporters for the Weekly Worker. They would also send new people, who wouldn't be recognised in.

At the time I was in London for a few months and was in a SWSS in Dublin. I hadn't decided whether to join the SWP or Socialist Party. I told the CPGB lot this in the pub and they then tried to convince me to (a) become a supporter of the CPGB , (b) still go and join the SP and (c) send gossip to the Weekly Worker. They advised me to join the SP rather than SWP because there'd be "more democratic space" to act the maggot. I didn't take them up on their offer.

It always makes me laugh when I see them do a straight faced disavowal of the very idea that they'd ever send supporters into other left groups to spy on them.

That is fantastic, and SO fucking strange. What sort of things were you meant to be finding out? Are they still doing it?

 

[Red Storm]

Yeah, I was at the front too most of the time, it was weird, like it wasn't real - I remember starting a chant about some seriously weird looking fella having six fingers on his hands, and I remember big glass vodka bottles being chucked over and it felt like it was a game where we had to dodge them, I even shouted "heads up" and laughed when one came over. It's like it was that weird it made me behave strangely too.

When I nearly got arrested I'd just been to the portabogs that were just outside the other end of the cordon. I got out fine, but just as I was coming out a mad swarm of what can only be described as the most stereotypical middle class lefties (sandals, palestinian scarves, the lot, and I'm not exaggerating) came flying over, I assume on the orders of one of the megaphone people, and started pushing the coppers over there. I ended up getting trapped in it. And just to make it even more weird and make me want to go for a lie down, when they tried to arrest me the stereotypical lefty types actually managed to pull me away from the coppers. I couldn't decide whether to have a go for getting me in the shit or thank them for getting me out of it!

Worst thing I saw that day though, and it wasn't funny at all, was this really old bloke - must have been in his nineties - who was just standing there minding his own business. The coppers came running past him and I'm sure one of them deliberately pushed the poor old sod over. About a week after I saw an interview he did at the demo on youtube - he was a Canadian WW2 vet who'd volunteered to fight with the British against the Nazis and if I remember correctly he had to con his way onto some haulage vessel to get here to fight, a genuine first class hero, and he'd found out about the demo from the Morning Star, which had appealed for people to come and make a stand against the fascists. He died not long after and for some reason I often think about that bloke when people are talking about the UAF.

I lasted until 11am before some copper decided he didn't like the look of me. Spent the next 7 hours at Pendleton police station.

I think it got kicked off a little too early! Must have gone off at 9am!!

 

[Delroy Booth]

Yeah it kicked off pretty much as soon as it became apparent the SWP wanted us all to be kettled into a fenced off area and forced to listen to their fucking speeches like a proper captive audience.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I also remember one of the leading SWP bods, think it was one of the ones who ended up in Counterfire (might have been Nineham, not sure) say that he wasn't a Muslim but, in solidarity, Alahu Akhbar (or however you spell it) and people around me started shouting it - another WTF? moment - I mean fair enough Muslims saying it, but did they think that "gesture of solidarity" would be appreciated or something?

It was one of those days where I half expected to suddenly realise I had no trousers on and then wake up in a cold sweat. I've had less disconcerting flashbacks!

 

[Nigel Irritable]

That is fantastic, and SO fucking strange. What sort of things were you meant to be finding out? Are they still doing it?

They don't seem to have done it for a while. I think what they mostly wanted was a source for internal documents, plus some gossip about supposed internal ructions. They used to have two people in the English Socialist Party and would also publish mad stuff about how the Dave Nellist faction was trying to get one over on the Hannah Sell faction and the like.

Those two people were, if I remember correctly, the last people who managed to actually get themselves kicked out of the English SP.

 

[frogwoman]

They don't seem to have done it for a while. I think what they mostly wanted was a source for internal documents, plus some gossip about supposed internal ructions. They used to have two people in the English Socialist Party and would also publish mad stuff about how the Dave Nellist faction was trying to get one over on the Hannah Sell faction and the like.

Those two people were, if I remember correctly, the last people who managed to actually get themselves kicked out of the English SP.

when was this? and seriously why do this in the first place? my god lol wtf were they thinking? you literally cannot make this shit up, wtf possesses them to make them think this type of thing is a worthwhile use of their time? It is not even proper entryism ffs

should have kept them in the party, and sent them back as like "double agents" lol

is there anything online about it?

 

[Delroy Booth]

One of the things that's unique about the Socialist Party is that it's a remarkably cohesive organization compared to all the other trot groups. You don't hear of them purging loads of their senior members every few years like pretty much all the other groups on the trot-left. Funnily enough even the "Official history of mi5" book that i've got says exactly the same thing about the Militant, that it's the only group on the far left with even a slight tradition of pluralism and the ability to accommodate people with differing views.

Then again that's probably the reason Taaffe has been able to stay in charge of the thing for so long, if he and his supporters behaved like Gerry Healy or any of the other trots no doubt the SP would've gone the same way as the WRP and the countless other sectoids in the country.

 

[SpineyNorman]

One of the things that's unique about the Socialist Party is that it's a remarkably cohesive organization compared to all the other trot groups. You don't hear of them purging loads of their senior members every few years like pretty much all the other groups on the trot-left. Funnily enough even the "Official history of mi5" book that i've got says exactly the same thing about the Militant, that it's the only group on the far left with even a slight tradition of pluralism and the ability to accommodate people with differing views.

Then again that's probably the reason Taaffe has been able to stay in charge of the thing for so long, if he and his supporters behaved like Gerry Healy or any of the other trots no doubt the SP would've gone the same way as the WRP and the countless other sectoids in the country.

That, comrade, is because we submit events and conditions to a rigorous material analysis and always come up with the correct line so there is simply no need for splits

 

[elfman]

Can't believe I'm reading through all of this. Think my trotspotting addiction has come back

 

[chilango]

What about the Animal Liberation Front.

And wasn't there some iffy stuff about Green Anarchist?

Some of the iffy stuff about GA is mentioned above. There was also the GANDALF trial, the sarin gas cheer leading and the classic article about DIY trepanning.


GA was always near the top of my list of papers to pick up on demos.

 

[chilango]

http://junge-linke.org/en/about-us Another one

Do they count? Are they just a journal/collective? If so we'd have to start counting Aufheben, Wildcat, Black Flag, Freedom and of course Mayday....

 

[chilango]

I also remember one of the leading SWP bods, think it was one of the ones who ended up in Counterfire (might have been Nineham, not sure) say that he wasn't a Muslim but, in solidarity, Alahu Akhbar (or however you spell it) and people around me started shouting it - another WTF? moment - I mean fair enough Muslims saying it, but did they think that "gesture of solidarity" would be appreciated or something?

It was one of those days where I half expected to suddenly realise I had no trousers on and then wake up in a cold sweat. I've had less disconcerting flashbacks!

I remember once, years ago, as a po-faced anarchist, refusing to take part in a a pagan thing at an Eco protest cos it was "religion".

Within a couple of years however, I was reduced to chanting "we pledge our allegiance to Satan" as part of a very bored, and very small, anarchist bloc on some exceedingly dull demo.

Oh well.