Work starts on the eagerly awaited new Foxtons office on Brixton Road

[simonSW2]

it boggles my mind

Minds too lazy to engage are very easily boggled.

 

[secateurz]

I love all this use of "like"ing posts.

We live in different worlds clearly, but it takes all sorts

 

[ViolentPanda]

At the end of the day, the way I see it is that its ridiculously territorial for anyone to make a comment on who moves into a certain area or not. So what if younger people are moving into a new area of London because it's increasing in popularity (and not to mention, in price) - if anything this reflects positively on the area itself. The same thing happened with East and is now happening in most of South London (Peckham is a prime example). Whether its 'hipsters', 'yuppies', 'chavs' or any other irrelevantly labeled person who chooses to move here isn't the issue in my opinion. All that Brixton stands to loose in this instance its cultural history, which ironically is one of the reason visitors prospective buyers are attracted to the area. So in this respect, yes I agree that perhaps the new Foxton's doesn't fit in. However, that's no reason to throw around stereotypes or labels of any kind, nor to act like anyone has any right to say who is allowed to move into the area or not. If we love Brixton and London in itself surely we should be proud that it is gaining recognition as a desirable place to be and to live.

It kind of depends on your social location as to whether you'll view the gaining of recognition as particularly worthy of pride. For some of us it's part of a gradual residualisation of "the lower orders" in parts of London that have been our homes for 50 years or more into ever-shrinking ghettoes of social housing. Then, it's not something to feel good about, because it's another sign that your stay has got more tenuous.

 

[ViolentPanda]

As I said, its 'one of the reasons'. Personally having been brought up in Putney and being of Caribbean heritage, I found it incredibly refreshing to experience an area where culture is so prominent and diverse, and I'm pretty sure that a lot of other people feel the same way.

Lived above the White Lion on Putney High Street between 1968 and 1970. It was well scummy back then.

What I was trying to say is that all these new things that Brixton has to offer can only stand as positives, however the main thing that Brixton has to lose in this situation is its authenticity.

And yet that's what Brixton is often being "sold" on - the "authenticity" of the cultural environment. Unfortunately that same environment is being constantly eroded by multinationals chasing the gentrifiers, and people who feel "inauthentic" or whose own cultural background doesn't seem "vibrant" enough moving here in order to imbibe some of that culture and/or bathe in its' reflected glory, as it were.

This is a fair point, however it's important to bear in mind that half the reason Brixton has such a diverse mix of cultures and races is because of the influx of immigrants during the 1940s and 50s, and I'm sure the previous residents during that time had similar views as the ones people seem to be making now - not to mention using race in an accusatory way similarly to how the blame is solely put upon 'hipsters', 'yuppies' and 'city slickers'. As an young art student I probably fall into the category of 'hipsters', yet being a South Londoner since birth I have a problem with being blamed for 'families being swept away' simply because of my lifestyle and fashion choices.

TBF, Brixton in the '30s was more fixated on whether people were Jews or not, often not a visible marker of "race" in the way skin colour was for the Windrush generation and later. You mostly only got shit if you looked Jewish, apparently. Crap for the Orthodox, but not too much of a hassle for my Gentile-looking gran and her family.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are the families 'being swept away' those in private rented accommodation? Surely those in social housing have some form of protection against the high rents all across London?

Better protection, definitely, although on current form it looks like local authorities will attempt, via "joint developments" to renovate social housing/decant, demolish and rebuild (see Cressingham Gardens and Myatts Fields threads) to impose new tenancy conitions that are less favourable, with less secure tenure.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I suspect though, not as silly as in the South East. Average earnings are really bumped up by people in extremely well-paid (some might say overpaid) jobs. meanwhile there are so many people doing high-value, low-paid jobs who are really struggling to keep their heads above water.

My uncle in Norwich couldn't believe it a few years back that the rent on his 3-bed council house with garden was only a third as much again (£120 a week) as the rent for my 1-bed flat with no garden (about £90 a week at the time).

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Better protection, definitely, although on current form it looks like local authorities will attempt, via "joint developments" to renovate social housing/decant, demolish and rebuild (see Cressingham Gardens and Myatts Fields threads) to impose new tenancy conitions that are less favourable, with less secure tenure.

....and that's a situation with council versus Housing Associations as well. To get somewhere that was suitable for a Guide Dog we had to trade down from a Secure Tenancy to an Assured Tenancy, and take a rent hike from one to t'other as well. Plus my husband, despite being the 'vulnerable' one is not, and cannot be on this tenancy, it's in my name so we are in the position that if I died tomorrow three people would lose their home. I've told them all if I die tomorrow to hide my body so they can stay housed. I'm only half-joking about that.

 

[longdog]

Paging longdog

£60 per week for a good sized 1 bedroom flat.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I'm pretty sure round these parts a one bed flat is double that.

 

[colacubes]

I'm pretty sure round these parts a one bed flat is double that.

I know someone paying nearly £180 for a studio (Housing Association I think). She's moving out of Brixton next month

 

[Mrs Magpie]

I was close, just rang someone. £101 but with a minuscule kitchen as in can't open the oven door without standing aside.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

that's Council, btw, not HA.

 

[Gramsci]

I think when the editor says hipster, he thinks of people like me : Spent less time in Brix than he has (only 5 years for me), younger, more disposable income and a more corporate job.

Throw in the hive mind of the younger gen that will swarm to an 'in' area, order a burger and instagram it for their friends..and the green eyes/resentment/fear of change of those who feel a little displaced is there for all to see.

You think this is a joke? I have people I know pushed out of Brixton. I am next on list. So my time here is limited.

Perhaps people like me might do more than green eyed resentment.

You talk of younger generation. Which one is that? Young generation are not just you and people u know.

I have friends who are younger than me and they do not go on like you.

 

[Gramsci]

At the end of the day, the way I see it is that its ridiculously territorial for anyone to make a comment on who moves into a certain area or not. So what if younger people are moving into a new area of London because it's increasing in popularity (and not to mention, in price) - if anything this reflects positively on the area itself. The same thing happened with East and is now happening in most of South London (Peckham is a prime example). Whether its 'hipsters', 'yuppies', 'chavs' or any other irrelevantly labeled person who chooses to move here isn't the issue in my opinion. All that Brixton stands to loose in this instance its cultural history, which ironically is one of the reason visitors prospective buyers are attracted to the area. So in this respect, yes I agree that perhaps the new Foxton's doesn't fit in. However, that's no reason to throw around stereotypes or labels of any kind, nor to act like anyone has any right to say who is allowed to move into the area or not. If we love Brixton and London in itself surely we should be proud that it is gaining recognition as a desirable place to be and to live.

I have lived in Brixton for years. I always thought it was a desirable place to live. I do not need/ never have needed Brixton to be validated by anyone else.

You mention East End. Like Brixton the issue is not change but the fact that in near future it will be simply unaffordable for new people to come to parts of London unless they are well off.

So my criticism of what is happening to London is that its gradually becoming a playground for the well off.

Immigration from other parts of UK and abroad has made London and Brixton what it is. Its not cultural history that will be lost. Its the essence of London as a place where people from different cultures and histories can live side by side. London is unique in that sense imo compared to other cities.

There is an issue of who a City is for. How can cities provide an environment for where change is possible. Many people come to cities to find more freedom in there lives. Gay people did find this in London for example in 70s .I think this freedom is gradually being closed down. A city needs to be made affordable for all to retain this freedom.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

A city needs to be made affordable for all to retain this freedom.

Affordable in the real sense, not what developers regard as affordable.

 

[Gramsci]

This is a fair point, however it's important to bear in mind that half the reason Brixton has such a diverse mix of cultures and races is because of the influx of immigrants during the 1940s and 50s, and I'm sure the previous residents during that time had similar views as the ones people seem to be making now - not to mention using race in an accusatory way similarly to how the blame is solely put upon 'hipsters', 'yuppies' and 'city slickers'. As an young art student I probably fall into the category of 'hipsters', yet being a South Londoner since birth I have a problem with being blamed for 'families being swept away' simply because of my lifestyle and fashion choices.

The blame is being put solely on hipsters?

I think you need to look up my posts. I post up here about housing/ "regeneration" etc. Among other topics.

You are making a generalization.

I remember the 70s and 80s. Racism was more than saying some unkind words about "hipsters". You cannot make an equivalence between the two. Racism is about something someone cannot help- the colour of there skin. Race is not the same as lifestyle and fashion choices.

I also think you are forgetting that back in 70s and 80s black and white communities often found themselves on the same side. ie opposing the police (Thatchers Army).

 

[editor]

I'm pretty sure round these parts a one bed flat is double that.

Triple more like

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Triple more like

I know I pay more in rent for a very small house than my sister is for a mortgage for a large 5 bed place up north

 

[Gramsci]

This is a fair point, however it's important to bear in mind that half the reason Brixton has such a diverse mix of cultures and races is because of the influx of immigrants during the 1940s and 50s, and I'm sure the previous residents during that time had similar views as the ones people seem to be making now - not to mention using race in an accusatory way similarly to how the blame is solely put upon 'hipsters', 'yuppies' and 'city slickers'. As an young art student I probably fall into the category of 'hipsters', yet being a South Londoner since birth I have a problem with being blamed for 'families being swept away' simply because of my lifestyle and fashion choices.

I know someone who is Black British ( second generation) who now lives in South London. He regularly complains to me about Somalis and Poles coming here and living near him. Particularly Poles as they are not in the Commonwealth (his parents came from Carribbean). So he does not understand why they are allowed to live here permanently. ( He does have a point there. Commonwealth citizens did have right to come here that was gradually restricted. Commonwealth was supposed to have freedom of movement).

So yes some people do not like change.

 

[Gramsci]

As I said, its 'one of the reasons'. Personally having been brought up in Putney and being of Caribbean heritage, I found it incredibly refreshing to experience an area where culture is so prominent and diverse, and I'm pretty sure that a lot of other people feel the same way. What I was trying to say is that all these new things that Brixton has to offer can only stand as positives, however the main thing that Brixton has to lose in this situation is its authenticity.

.

Chatting to a Black guy I know recently. ( born in Brixton of Carribbean heritage). He did not have your confidence in the "positives". His view was that by the time the Black Cultural Archives building is finished there will not be any Black people left in Brixton with the way things are going.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I know someone who is Black British ( second generation) who now lives in South London. He regularly complains to me about Somalis and Poles coming here and living near him. Particularly Poles as they are not in the Commonwealth (his parents came from Carribbean). So he does not understand why they are allowed to live here permanently. ( He does have a point there. Commonwealth citizens did have right to come here that was gradually restricted. Commonwealth was supposed to have freedom of movement).

So yes some people do not like change.

Did you point out that the Polish WWII connection?

 

[Gramsci]

It kind of depends on your social location as to whether you'll view the gaining of recognition as particularly worthy of pride. For some of us it's part of a gradual residualisation of "the lower orders" in parts of London that have been our homes for 50 years or more into ever-shrinking ghettoes of social housing. Then, it's not something to feel good about, because it's another sign that your stay has got more tenuous.

And unlike other cities London was less segregated according to wealth. That is changing. See this article:

Last week, Darren Johnson, one of the Green Party’s members in the London assembly, claimed that new housing benefit figures showed rising numbers of low income families being priced out of Inner London. The changes are striking, but there are emerging differences within areas as well as between them.

The is a clear indication from these trends that whilst people on low incomes are able to cope with having their housing benefit restricted to the cheapest 30% of properties, when the level is set even lower than this they cannot. It appears that the national cap is making parts of London a no-go zone for people on low incomes.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Some of the bravest WWII pilots were Afro-Caribbean and Polish. Not to mention soldiers and sailors as well.

 

[Gramsci]

Did you point out that the Polish WWII connection?

I did. I did point out that we are in Europe. And have always been part of Europe. He did not get it. I think he looked at UK as country that used to have empire. That those who were in it should be allowed here.

Its not a strong argument to use. Hungary and Romania did not have a WW2 that they would want to remember. But they are entitled to come here as much as Poles.

Some Indians fought with the Japanese against the British. As they saw the UK as imperialist. Hoped Japanese would help them liberate India from imperialist rule. WW2 is looked at from hindsight.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

I did. I did point out that we are in Europe. And have always been part of Europe. He did not get it. I think he looked at UK as country that used to have empire. That those who were in it should be allowed here.

Its not a strong argument to use. Hungary and Romania did not have a WW2 that they would want to remember. But they are entitled to come here as much as Poles.

So if he's got a problem with the Polish, what does he think about the Gurkhas then?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Its not a strong argument to use. Hungary and Romania did not have a WW2 that they would want to remember. But they are entitled to come here as much as Poles.

Suppose so, but sometimes you just have to use what you've got

 

[Gramsci]

So if he's got a problem with the Polish, what does he think about the Gurkhas then?

Well the Poles hang around drinking outside in his street. No Gurkhas in his street. So no problem.

(zywiec or tyskie is rather good)

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Well the Poles hang around drinking outside in his street. No Gurkhas in his street. So no problem.

(zywiec or tyskie is rather good)

I wouldn't want to mug anyone if I knew there were Gurkhas hanging around my street. We should have more of them!

 

[Gramsci]

I wouldn't want to mug anyone if I knew there were Gurkhas hanging around my street. We should have more of them!

Joanna Lumley has made sure there will be more Gurkhas.

 

[mxh]

His view was that by the time the Black Cultural Archives building is finished there will not be any Black people left in Brixton with the way things are going.

By the time this is built none of us will still be alive.