work help required - suspended, possible disciplinary...

[Treacle Toes]

Does anyone know if the whatsapp group is legally confidential? Like, if they are discussing me there (or clients) can they keep this private under gdpr regs? I think they must be on shaky ground there...

Do they have a policy on social media and confidentiality?

 

[Pickman's model]

Does anyone know if the whatsapp group is legally confidential? Like, if they are discussing me there (or clients) can they keep this private under gdpr regs? I think they must be on shaky ground there...

I think they are on shaky ground but talk to your union rep and see if acas can shed light on it. How did you find out about the group? If you put in a subject access request, ask specifically for info from this group (if it's a company thing ie something used for work purposes). Note down any members of the group you know of too, not to include in initial subject access request but in any subsequent correspondence if they deny knowledge of group

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Do they have a policy on social media and confidentiality?

They do. I've already texted the manager to request a copy of their policy on drug use in the work place. I will also let him know that I would like details of the social media policy.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

I think they are on shaky ground but talk to your union rep and see if acas can shed light on it. How did you find out about the group? If you put in a subject access request, ask specifically for info from this group (if it's a company thing ie something used for work purposes). Note down any members of the group you know of too, not to include in initial subject access request but in any subsequent correspondence if they deny knowledge of group

Thanks, this is all a lot for me to take on board at the moment, but I will do just that when I have had time to collect my thoughts.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

New Europe law makes it easy to find out what your boss has said about you

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Also, just for shits and giggles, I feel I should mention that they had a data breach recently. One of the staff members got suspended and received a final written warning. They should have reported it to the information commissioner, but somehow convinced themselves that they didn't have to. I'm keeping that one in the back pocket, for sure.

I've just had a call from the manager, who said I can view the relevant policies online. I'm just looking at them now.

 

[Guineveretoo]

you are getting really good advice from fellow urbanites, so I won't repeat that, other than to repeat that it is important to have a desired outcome in all of this, and to be pragmatic about how to achieve it.

Also, press for the union to be involved. it will be much better if it is the union asking for the procedures and policies and information. And, you need all the support you can get. It is going to be tough.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

I've just let the manager know that I will be putting in a subject access request for all emails etc about me, including what is on their WhatsApp group.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Unison have sent me this form to fill out, which is in pdf form. I have no way of converting it to a word document and no printer. They said they will send it through the post, but that could take ages.

 

[wayward bob]

PDFescape - Free PDF Editor & Free PDF Form Filler ? <disclaimer - never tried it>

 

[Pickman's model]

Unison have sent me this form to fill out, which is in pdf form. I have no way of converting it to a word document and no printer. They said they will send it through the post, but that could take ages.

If it's the case form search 'secamb unison case management form' and a word download should appear

 

[Jon-of-arc]

PDFescape - Free PDF Editor & Free PDF Form Filler ? <disclaimer - never tried it>

Seems to work! Thanks.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Unison have sent me this form to fill out, which is in pdf form. I have no way of converting it to a word document and no printer. They said they will send it through the post, but that could take ages.

Phone up and ask to speak to someone. You are not helping yourself by contacting your employer and asking for all this stuff. The union should be doing this.

 

[High Voltage]

Unison have sent me this form to fill out, which is in pdf form. I have no way of converting it to a word document and no printer. They said they will send it through the post, but that could take ages.

Here

https://smallpdf.com

 

[alex_]

I've just let the manager know that I will be putting in a subject access request for all emails etc about me, including what is on their WhatsApp group.

I’d follow this up with an actual subject access request ASAP.

Until they get an actual one they can delete it all, after receiving it deleting it would be a criminal offence.

It doesn’t have to be very formal, an email mentioning that it is as subject access request, and asking to see what you want to see.

I’d ask to see all emails or whatsapp messages you are discussed on, or which mention your name, including any short names.

Eg any of Jon, Jonathan, and Jon ofarc and Jonathan ofarc.

Alex

 

[girasol]

Well, it's done now. They can use it against me all they want. When you have a policy of employing ex users, this sort of thing is bound to crop up from time to time.

oh, I see, I think I misunderstood the context of your employment. Fair enough then!

 

[Guineveretoo]

I’d follow this up with an actual subject access request ASAP.

Until they get an actual one they can delete it all, after receiving it deleting it would be a criminal offence.

It doesn’t have to be very formal, an email mentioning that it is as subject access request, and asking to see what you want to see.

I’d ask to see all emails or whatsapp messages you are discussed on, or which mention your name, including any short names.

Eg any of Jon, Jonathan, and Jon ofarc and Jonathan ofarc.

Alex

I would advise against this at this stage. You need to clarify your case, including those elusive objectives, and then determine the information/evidence that you need, and you need to do this with help from a union official.

Tying management up with subject access requests (they will spend all their time looking at ways to minimise what they need to show you, and making sure that what they give you is unhelpful) is not necessarily going to further your claim, if you decide to make one, and can be distracting and unhelpful.

On the other hand, if the union people think it is helpful, they will, hopefully, take proper advice about the exact questions to ask, and the exact information to seek, and the words to ensure that management are not able to avoid providing this. If you have already submitted a subject access request which covers similar ground, management will ignore the one from the union if they possibly can.

 

[alex_]

I would advise against this at this stage. You need to clarify your case, including those elusive objectives, and then determine the information/evidence that you need, and you need to do this with help from a union official.

Tying management up with subject access requests (they will spend all their time looking at ways to minimise what they need to show you, and making sure that what they give you is unhelpful) is not necessarily going to further your claim, if you decide to make one, and can be distracting and unhelpful.

On the other hand, if the union people think it is helpful, they will, hopefully, take proper advice about the exact questions to ask, and the exact information to seek, and the words to ensure that management are not able to avoid providing this. If you have already submitted a subject access request which covers similar ground, management will ignore the one from the union if they possibly can.

If they know he is going to do a sar and he doesn’t, they can delete stuff.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Re-reading your OP Jon-of-arc and you haven't said how you were suspended and by whom?

 

[Guineveretoo]

If they know he is going to do a sar and he doesn’t, they can delete stuff.

Not legally and, in fact, what is to stop them from deleting stuff anyway, if they are going to do that?

 

[Guineveretoo]

Re-reading your OP Jon-of-arc and you haven't said how you were suspended and by whom?

Also, have you been suspended on full pay?

I assume that you were suspended because of a possible disciplinary, because of the thread heading, but what were you told. Do you have anything in writing?

Some employers will suspend staff as a punishment, and do so without pay.

 

[alex_]

Not legally and, in fact, what is to stop them from deleting stuff anyway, if they are going to do that?

It’s a criminal offence to destroy data to avoid disclosure ( the sar ), if the sar hasn’t arrived you can do what you want.

Implement a policy banning work WhatsApp groups, delete group, done

 

[Guineveretoo]

It’s a criminal offence to destroy data to avoid disclosure ( the sar ), if the sar hasn’t arrived you can do what you want.

Implement a policy banning work WhatsApp groups, delete group, done

Whatsapp is not GDPR compliant anyway, so they would just deny that it was an official group. Job done.

But, in all seriousness, how will it help to dig out this information? The employer will be looking to redact any information which reveals details of other staff, and there are lots of ways to avoid or minimise subject access requests, which is why people are advised to use it thoughtfully and with proper advice.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Also, have you been suspended on full pay?

I assume that you were suspended because of a possible disciplinary, because of the thread heading, but what were you told. Do you have anything in writing?

Some employers will suspend staff as a punishment, and do so without pay.

Suspended on full pay. I have had an email in writing making it all very formal. Doesn't say a lot of interest...

 

[Guineveretoo]

Suspended on full pay. I have had an email in writing making it all very formal. Doesn't say a lot of interest...

Okay, so they now have to instigate an investigation in order to determine if there is any case to answer.

They should be telling you why you were suspended - the investigation could have taken place with you still at work - so the first thing I would be doing if i were your union official is to ask the employer to clarify why you are suspended and for how long.

i would be fighting to get you back to work...

 

[Treacle Toes]

Jon, you said there is other relevant stuff you don't want to post on here..Perhaps take a few of your known and trusted urbs off to a pm convo?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Having a private WhatsApp group that excludes some employees is potentially a discrimination/harassment issue in itself (based on anti-harassment training I've had recently, which specifically mentioned that as an example).

 

[Jon-of-arc]

here's the contact of the suspension letter...

We are investigating a serious allegation regarding your alleged conduct in the workplace. In my capacity as Service Manager I have a duty to ensure that a full and proper investigation of the matter is conducted.



Whilst this investigation is being undertaken you will be suspended from your duties with immediate effect. During the period of your suspension, you will continue to be paid your salary and receive other contractual benefits in the usual way.



I have considered carefully whether steps other than suspension could be put in place whilst the issue is investigated. In the circumstances I believe it is appropriate and reasonable to suspend you for a short period whilst the matter is fully investigated. We will ensure that the suspension continues for no longer than is reasonably necessary to arrive at a decision on whether disciplinary action is required.



Please note that your suspension does not imply that you are guilty of any allegations and has not been taken as a form of disciplinary action or sanction against you. During your suspension, the Company will carry out an investigation into the concerns. It may be necessary to hold a meeting or meetings with you as part of this investigation. Once the investigation is complete, you will be advised of the outcome and you may be invited to attend a disciplinary hearing. Your suspension may continue pending the outcome of any disciplinary hearing.



During the period of your suspension you are not permitted to attend any of the Company's premises or contact any of the Company's customers, clients, suppliers or employees and that, apart from the obligation to attend work, all the terms of your contract of employment remain in force.



Your access to your Company email and the Company’s IT systems will therefore be suspended with immediate effect.



If you have any queries during this time, please contact me.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Having a private WhatsApp group that excludes some employees is potentially a discrimination/harassment issue in itself (based on anti-harassment training I've had recently, which specifically mentioned that as an example).

There are many reasons why whatsapp groups should not be used in any official capacity. This is one of them.

Although I suspect the same training would have pointed out that going to the pub after work can also be a potential discrimination/harassment issue...

 

[Treacle Toes]

How are you supposed to access policies on the intranet and/or potentially relevant data in your email account with the terms of that IT ban? They will be checking your account and net usage for sure...change passwords for key accounts elsewhere if you have ever used the company account to browse etc.

Hmmm