Woolwich soldier killed (was "Did cops just shoot 2 dead in woolwich?")

[treelover]

Sheffield EDL presence, neglible?

 

[Casually Red]

I don't know if it is true or bollocks, but if it is true they don't strike me as a very rational or balanced lot.

rational balanced people tend not to take jobs as head hacking mercenaries, id have thought .

 

[butchersapron]

you might need to rephrase that a bit more clearly. Im more than happy to give you an answer once I know what it is your actually asking me. Im finding that a bit cryptic .

well no I dont blame them for you being a wanker for instance, you managed that without help from anyone. Im merely contrasting the great British publics attitude to one bunch of crazed head hackers to another bunch of crazed head hackers . And the issue of hacking soldiers head off in general ..which seems to be perfectly fine behaviour as long as its someone elses soldiers and not their own .

Which it is - creeping up on some enemy in the night/ chopping some blokes head off in the middle of a city.

But i guess - all is war. Is that what you think? Would like a yes or no answer on that.

As you put it out here for debate.

 

[sihhi]

Which it is - creeping up on some enemy in the night/ chopping some blokes head off in the middle of a city. But i guess - all is war. Is that what you think? Would like a yes or no answer on that. As you put it out here for debate.

The soldier - off-duty or not - was seen as an enemy to the two Islamists - that, I believe, is CR's point.
Enemies of FCO / MOD policy - as defined by HMG - have also been killed off-duty abroad.
The contrast I think is the difference in popular (or perhaps not so popular) tolerance given/allowed for the two scenarios.

 

[Casually Red]

butchers ive still no idea bar the fuzziest what it is your actually asking me

 

[T & P]

rational balanced people tend not to take jobs as head hacking mercenaries, id have thought .

Fair point

 

[butchersapron]

The soldier - off-duty or not - was seen as an enemy to the two Islamists - that, I believe, is CR's point.
Enemies of FCO / MOD policy - as defined by HMG - have also been killed off-duty abroad.
The contrast I think is the difference in popular (or perhaps not so popular) tolerance given/allowed for the two scenarios.

I get his point - it's facile and not based on any real expectations of combat/war -which is why i was luring him into saying all conditions of war were and are the same. Sometimes best to stand off a bit sihhi. We don't all need things summarised thanks.

 

[cesare]

butchers ive still no idea bar the fuzziest what it is your actually asking me

Could be time and a place for the contrast, sorta thing? My dad can make that comment about United Bloody Nations at home, no problem - but he said it once in the middle of Carluccios Canary Wharf and my mum gave him grief for it.

 

[Mr Moose]

What, us and the media together? Really? It's because he's a tout.

It's not an unreasonable comment. The relationship is symbiotic. He gives them what they want. His time is probably as much spent with the media as it is with any other endeavour.

 

[Casually Red]

The soldier - off-duty or not - was seen as an enemy to the two Islamists - that, I believe, is CR's point.
Enemies of FCO / MOD policy - as defined by HMG - have also been killed off-duty abroad.
The contrast I think is the difference in popular (or perhaps not so popular) tolerance given/allowed for the two scenarios.

indeed, and in particular the issue of hacking the enemies head off with a dirty great knife, when thats totally uneccessary in my view no matter who does it. The difference is I think its disgustingly barbaric no matter who does it.

 

[xenon]

That's why then. 'Give him enough rope' scenario.

Nah. He's just a renta gob. Entertainment / outrage value. no one seriously gives a fuck what he thinks do they.

 

[Casually Red]

Could be time and a place for the contrast, sorta thing? My dad can make that comment about United Bloody Nations at home, no problem - but he said it once in the middle of Carluccios Canary Wharf and my mum gave him grief for it.

well then he might have had a reasonable point that Id be prepared to take on board, if hed made it in a decipherable fashion .

 

[ibilly99]

I think a lot of British people are very strange . The fucking gurkhas have been running about hacking soldiers up and cutting soldiers heads off for ages now and theres well supported campaigns to give them British citizenship and the like . Theyre British heroes who have a huge big fuck off hacker knife as an emblem .

If one of them hacked a jihadists head off thered be pats on the back all round, well done plucky little mountain warrior etc. But someone does it to a British soldier and its an unspeakable act of savagery, gruesome barbarism etc . Which it is,its disgusting, but it seems to be much less barbaric when the British army do it .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...iplined-beheading-Taliban-Thank-God-side.html

 

[butchersapron]

indeed, and in particular the issue of hacking the enemies head off with a dirty great knife, when thats totally uneccessary in my view no matter who does it. The difference is I think its disgustingly barbaric no matter who does it.

It's a moral thing? Your 'when' suggests otherwise.

 

[cesare]

well then he might have had a reasonable point that Id be prepared to take on board, if hed made it in a decipherable fashion .

It may not be what he meant, I was just guessing and probably wrong

 

[xenon]

did they have an anti-muslim appearance?

 

[butchersapron]

well then he might have had a reasonable point that Id be prepared to take on board, if hed made it in a decipherable fashion .

And of course the equal weight given to each and very case ever - and the fact that they are all exactly the same - helps lead to this moral sloppiness, this collective failing on the part of 'the brits'.

 

[skyscraper101]

I like Boya Dee's commentary. Lots of the media are asking him to get in touch. Maybe we'll see him on the news tomorrow.

Boya Dee turned down upto £75k from the media!

https://twitter.com/BOYADEE

I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't have been tempted myself.

 

[likesfish]

The kukhri the Ghurki's knife is the default tool for the nepalise hill folk the having to spill blood when they draw it is just one of their little jokes.
Another one is to sit eating a huge pile of truly evil chillis till a curious squaddie thinks hmm they cant be that bad and tries one Bastards

 

[treelover]

That's strange, he could have split it, help for heroes, etc.

 

[Casually Red]

It's a moral thing? Your 'when' suggests otherwise.

there is absolutely no justification for deliberately mutilating your opponents corpse and chopping his head off . None whatsoever, whether ones a jihadist or a gurkha or Royal marine, or a US Marine . My morals on that issue are quite clear cut . The British medias and indeed the British militarys though seem to enter a bit of a grey area depending on who is doing it to who . Which was the only point I was trying to get accross. With regard to this constant media furore, which is engaged in non stop moralising about it.

 

[butchersapron]

there is absolutely no justification for deliberately mutilating your opponents corpse and chopping his head off . None whatsoever, whether ones a jihadist or a gurkha or Royal marine, or a US Marine . My morals on that issue are quite clear cut . The British medias and indeed the British militarys though seem to enter a bit of a grey area depending on who is doing it to who . Which was the only point I was trying to get accross. And which in the middle of all this constant media furore, which is engaged in non stop moralising about it.

OIK ta, that's clear as crystal. It's just the brits being blind to it that you're on about. Which is a historical story not a moral or national story. Agreed?

 

[Casually Red]

And of course the equal weight given to each and very case ever - and the fact that they are all exactly the same - helps lead to this moral sloppiness, this collective failing on the part of 'the brits'.

not the foggiest what youre on about

 

[likesfish]

No the ghurka got disciplined over it

 

[Casually Red]

OIK ta, that's clear as crystal. It's just the brits being blind to it that you're on about. Which is a historical story not a moral or national story. Agreed?

i said, very deliberately, some British people were blind to it. And I thought I pretty much specified who they were.

 

[sihhi]

I get his point - it's facile and not based on any real expectations of combat/war -which is why i was luring him into saying all conditions of war were and are the same. Sometimes best to stand off a bit sihhi. We don't all need things summarised thanks.

I am sorry. I replied straight to you, wasn't having a go at you for anything.

Just separating out in general the main point (facile or not) from the particular machete/manner of the assassination/execution/killing of the off duty soldier.
The two aspects of it (off duty/away from combat, hideous manner of death) confuse me anyway.
I know there was a plot in 2007 but single and exemplary execution of someone who isn't on active service (Russian soldier ambushed and kidnapped then mutilated in Chechnya) or especial anti-Islam idolator (Theo van Gogh, Abdi Jeylani Marshali) or as part of a hostage+demands scenario (the Iraq war hostages) is unusual.

 

[butchersapron]

No worries mate. I'm trying to get together a list of failed/convicted stuff - from the 2007 plot to behead a muslim soldier in this country might be an interesting start point.

 

[Casually Red]

which is why i was luring him into saying all conditions of war were and are the same..

um..no you werent . You need to seperate the expectations of your cunning plans from reality . I hadnt a clue what you were on about, and thats the truth . I wasnt being lured anywhere.

 

[thedockerslad]

OIK ta, that's clear as crystal. It's just the brits being blind to it that you're on about. Which is a historical story not a moral or national story. Agreed?

With a name like butchersapron you've got a fucking cheek to be asking other people to distinguish their story.

 

[butchersapron]

um..no you werent . You need to seperate the expectations of your cunning plans from reality . I hadnt a clue what you were on about, and thats the truth . I wasnt being lured anywhere.

Yes i was. It didn't work, But i was.